Nimrud Bulldozed

[caratacus]

What angers and surprises me, is not just the destruction, you can understand that from these Islamic fanatics who are outsiders for the most part. But how can the Sunni Arab tribes people of the area, allow IS to commit such wanton destruction to their own heritage. Have they fallen under the grip of these maniacs so much!? Has their fear and hatred of Iraq's Shia militia or IS, so transfixed their actions. Where are the Arab nationalists,former members of the Baath party that joined IS forces to fight against the Shia!? Have they finally chosen to abandon their Iraqi identity to embrace a caliphate that has no future.

[Mary The Quene]

What angers and surprises me, is not just the destruction, you can understand that from these Islamic fanatics who are outsiders for the most part. But how can the Sunni Arab tribes people of the area, allow IS to commit such wanton destruction to their own heritage.

That's a problem from the start of 2003 on. Those Sunnis from Iraq just can't accept that Saddam Hussein isn't here anymore and can't stand what they call the 'Rafidah' majority ruling over a minority. That Hostility togheter with a pathetic Iraqi army (in June 2014 at least) and ISIS unexpected move which seized lot of lands and looked to be the winners of the conflict made the Sunni Arab tribes defect to ISIS.

Where are the Arab nationalists,former members of the Baath party that joined IS forces to fight against the Shia!? Have they finally chosen to abandon their Iraqi identity to embrace a caliph that has no future.

They were never real Baathists anyway. A real Baathist would NEVER fight along with Daesh

[Condottiere 40K]

1439
They're senior ex-military types, who'll pay lip service to the more stringent aspects of Wahabism. And being a member of the Baathist party woild be a political requirement for almost all responsible positions in the former Iraqi hierarchy.

[caratacus]

It seems what remains of the Iraq Baath party, broke off their association with IS in summer last year, as the result of their violent treatment of Christians in Mosul.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

July 23, 2014
BasNews, Mosul

The banned Iraq Baath party has declared war against the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS) group due to their violent dismissal of the Christians of Mosul.

In a statement released by the Baath party this week, claims are made that the crimes of ISIS are becoming far too numerous and there should be a limit put on them, especially after they threatened and forced Christians in Mosul to leave the city.

On 18 July, ISIS called on all the Christians to make a choice: to remain in the city, they would have to either convert to Islam or pay high taxes to remain as recognized Christians. Otherwise they were to leave Mosul within 24 hours. Most of the Christian families left the city and fled to the Kurdistan Region.

Earlier last month and at the start of ISIS attacks in Mosul, former Saddam Hussain deputy, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri still on the run since 2003, is believed to lead the Baathist militant group the Naqshbandi Army, one of several groups which supported the al Qaeda offshoot in a recorded audio called on all Iraqis to join efforts to ’liberate’ the country and praised Sunni militants who led last month’s dramatic offensive through northern Iraq.

The Baath party is an Arab political party from Syria and previously in Iraq. Its main ideological objectives are secularism, socialism, and pan-Arab unionism. Founded in Damascus in 1941 and reformed, with the name Baath, in the early 1950s, it rapidly achieved political power in Syria.

Given that there wasn't much of a response,I gather that the Baathists are pretty much crushed or in hiding.

[Roma_Victrix]

1377
You need boots on the ground. Or hooves.

You need Mongols.

If we did that, Baghdad would be liable to be sacked again.

[Blaze86420]

Nope nothing to do with Islam. No sir. That there is a jobs program. Obviously they are making room for a factory to produce parts for the the iphone 7. ISIS is also re-branding itself to iSIS.

Nimrud has been in Muslim territory for the past 1400 years, it was destroyed last week. But thank you for you contribution.

[Brihentin13]

Let's hope it's been mostly the reconstructions - At many ancient sites, it's actually the reconstructions that are the most spectacular (Delphi, for example).

I did not know that Delphi had been reconstructed. Could I, in this modern era, go visit a replica of the site that Brennus plundered so many centuries ago? If so, then Greece's tourism industry continues to impress me.

That said, the worst damage has already been done way before this month, when all over Syria and Iraq sites have been looted and people dug for treasures in the ground, in the process destroying priceless archeological traces. That is the true casualty to archaeology, science, and hence humanity in general.

I concur. This particular plundering just has a bigger shock value to it, as they're able to take more videos of the actual crimes being committed.

[Chadaface]

Terrible move, if the idol worshippers in Europe love these idols so much they should've just sold it to them somehow.

[Roma_Victrix]

I didn't know this before, but apparently the temple complex at Hatra was used in the opening sequence of the movie The Exorcist (1973).

[caratacus]

Terrible move, if the idol worshippers in Europe love these idols so much they should've just sold it to them somehow.

Again, these are not idols, they are stone statues and carvings.Idols are something worshipped. Any lump of rock crudely carved becomes an idol, if it is used in such a wary. But if it ceases to be one (in this case for thousands of years) it becomes an artefact or item of art. In fact many of the statues that these idiots are smashing, were not even worshipped as idols by the Assyrians

And selling artefacts is precisely what is going on. It just happens that large statutes and temple structures can't be shipped secretly and so are destroyed. But the underlying intention is most likely the plunder of these sites.
http://news.newsdirectory1.com/islam...the-war-chest/

[Rinan]

I just read some fascinating stuff about Syrian people risking their lives to preserve or document their heritage. Also, Greco-Roman material is apparently easier to sell for looters, because it is not as geographically marked material as cuneiform tablets.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...e-archaeology/

I did not know that Delphi had been reconstructed. Could I, in this modern era, go visit a replica of the site that Brennus plundered so many centuries ago? If so, then Greece's tourism industry continues to impress me.

I'm not sure what you mean, Delphi kept on functioning as a working, and prominent, holy site for centuries. For example the famous philosopher and writer Plutarch worked on its premises in the second century AD. It was finally shut down, but not destroyed, by emperor Theodosius.
What I referred to are the partial restaurations such as the Tholos.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can clearly see which part is fake, and which is ancient.

Hussein's reconstructions were a bit more... Ambitious, I'd say.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Condottiere 40K]

2210
Delphi saw the end coming, their prophecies tended to be a lot more spot on, assuming you phrased the question correctly.

[Winston Smith]

Terrible move, if the idol worshippers in Europe love these idols so much they should've just sold it to them somehow.

Please tell me this is trolling.

[Condottiere 40K]

2411
We probably would have, but most countries seemed to have this selfish view that those ruins were part of their cultural heritage.

[Alastor]

If there is an Allah, I really hope he roasts those bloody barbarians on the lowest pits of hell for 10 eternities to come. I mean murdering people and so on that is one thing, but art, cultural heritage, that is the only immortality we have and to destroy that, even barbarity must have some limits.

[Brihentin13]

I have to admit, I'm not entirely sure what the best way to deal with ISIS even is. You obviously don't want to throw war crimes on top of war crimes, but I think we all agree that ISIS should be eradicated in someway. The most obvious answer is "boots on the ground", which lends credence to the idea that we possibly should never have left Iraq. The problem is, how long can we stay? As was recently demonstrated, the military that America left to protect and police Iraq was an utter failure. A combination of damnable cowardice and simple laziness left ISIS running free with a bunch of easily captured weapons and gear. Even if we flat out re-invade and occupy Iraq, whether unilaterally or with a coalition, who's to say that the same disaster won't just happen again, as soon as Western forces leave?

ISIS definitely needs to be destroyed, no question about it, but at what point do we, as citizens of Western nations, need to stop giving a damn? Many of our supposed allies in Iraq have proven themselves unwilling to stand beside us and fight against the radical movement within Islam. Is Iraq really worth our blood and treasure?

Perhaps a different approach is needed. Perhaps the same brutal, yet justified tactic that ended World War 2 should be applied. Maybe, just maybe, ISIS should be given a timeline and a choice. Surrender by day X, or suffer obliteration. If, by that time, ISIS has not laid down their arms, some ISIS held sites suffer a nuclear attack. A new ultimatum is offered, bombs are dropped, and the process is repeated until ISIS either surrenders of ceases to be.

There is a concern, of course, over collateral damage. This is unfortunate, but the people of Iraq have not shown much dedication to the cause of their own freedom. Many "innocents" harbored insurgents during the long American occupation, and the Iraqi army quickly gave up after we left. Iraq had it's chance to come out of this conflict in good shape. At this point, polls show that a war-wearied America is simply tired of dealing with the Middle East. I know I am.

I know that my position may shock some of you, but I ask you to recall the last days of the second World War. Iwo Jima was taken, but a costly, lengthy operation upon mainland Japan seemed to be inevitable. That was, until Truman made the brave decision to open Pandora's box. Two attacks later, Japan's legendary spirit to fight was broken, and even more lives were saved by ending the bloodiest conflict in world history.

I do not believe that such attacks are "stooping" to a lower level. We are destroying a great evil, and doing the cause of civilization a favor. These savages will just keep coming back and preying upon the weak and innocent until someone stronger puts them down. ISIS only exists because greater powers in the West have yet to muster the stomach to face them.

[Yayattasa]

I have to admit, I'm not entirely sure what the best way to deal with ISIS even is. You obviously don't want to throw war crimes on top of war crimes, but I think we all agree that ISIS should be eradicated in someway. The most obvious answer is "boots on the ground", which lends credence to the idea that we possibly should never have left Iraq. The problem is, how long can we stay? As was recently demonstrated, the military that America left to protect and police Iraq was an utter failure. A combination of damnable cowardice and simple laziness left ISIS running free with a bunch of easily captured weapons and gear. Even if we flat out re-invade and occupy Iraq, whether unilaterally or with a coalition, who's to say that the same disaster won't just happen again, as soon as Western forces leave?

ISIS definitely needs to be destroyed, no question about it, but at what point do we, as citizens of Western nations, need to stop giving a damn? Many of our supposed allies in Iraq have proven themselves unwilling to stand beside us and fight against the radical movement within Islam. Is Iraq really worth our blood and treasure?

Perhaps a different approach is needed. Perhaps the same brutal, yet justified tactic that ended World War 2 should be applied. Maybe, just maybe, ISIS should be given a timeline and a choice. Surrender by day X, or suffer obliteration. If, by that time, ISIS has not laid down their arms, some ISIS held sites suffer a nuclear attack. A new ultimatum is offered, bombs are dropped, and the process is repeated until ISIS either surrenders of ceases to be.

There is a concern, of course, over collateral damage. This is unfortunate, but the people of Iraq have not shown much dedication to the cause of their own freedom. Many "innocents" harbored insurgents during the long American occupation, and the Iraqi army quickly gave up after we left. Iraq had it's chance to come out of this conflict in good shape. At this point, polls show that a war-wearied America is simply tired of dealing with the Middle East. I know I am.

I know that my position may shock some of you, but I ask you to recall the last days of the second World War. Iwo Jima was taken, but a costly, lengthy operation upon mainland Japan seemed to be inevitable. That was, until Truman made the brave decision to open Pandora's box. Two attacks later, Japan's legendary spirit to fight was broken, and even more lives were saved by ending the bloodiest conflict in world history.

I do not believe that such attacks are "stooping" to a lower level. We are destroying a great evil, and doing the cause of civilization a favor. These savages will just keep coming back and preying upon the weak and innocent until someone stronger puts them down. ISIS only exists because greater powers in the West have yet to muster the stomach to face them.

Hehe. NO.

[Phier]

Nimrud has been in Muslim territory for the past 1400 years, it was destroyed last week. But thank you for you contribution.

It was excavated and preserved primarily by non-Muslims. Its not like they cared for those 1400 years. Just more of history destroyed by religious fanatics.

[Basil II the B.S]

There was enough room for intervention when they started wiping out the Yazidi and enslaving women. The only ones willing to do the job are the Shias but the US won't let them. More reason they utterly failed their role as ''world police'' and need to go down the toilet.

[TASS07]

There was enough room for intervention when they started wiping out the Yazidi and enslaving women. The only ones willing to do the job are the Shias but the US won't let them. More reason they utterly failed their role as ''world police'' and need to go down the toilet.

It was "Shias" to first prepping the grounds for a lot of the support that the IS has seen locally in Iraq, by deeping the denominational trenches. Al-Maliki did an awesome job at that... So putting down the IS with "Shia" forces is atleast putting out fire with fire. Depending on the how, it's even oil to many Sunni I guess.