Plague Mechanic changes for DeI post Empire Divided.

[Valmont]

As the DeI devs will be porting the plague mechanic back to other campaigns, I was wondering what changes if any are planed for it.

Perhaps in DeI the plague chances can be mostly defined by population and immigration (an excessive amount of them triggers plagues) so it acts as a natural population and immigration regulation mechanic.
(IE: A defensive player that does not loose population by wars cannot reach non historical too large population amounts because of plagues, if players want to keep the plague out besides sanitation buildings they must regulate immigration and population amount).

Anyway, I am really exited to see what the DeI team does with these new tools at their disposal.

Cheers

[Augustusng]

Not a bad idea. We'll have to see how we can tie plagues into the population system.

[Litharion]

In terms of scripting, we can get sanitation and squalor with Lua and we can affect armies and regions with plagues as well.

No idea if we drastically change the system, I don't think we will.

[Vardano]

Is this will affect only user?

[Augustusng]

The AI will be susceptible to plagues. They'll most likely get a bonus against it because the AI won't know it should build sanitation buildings.

Also, plagues can spread to/from AI armies and cities, and also through trade routes.

[Valmont]

The AI will be susceptible to plagues. They'll most likely get a bonus against it because the AI won't know it should build sanitation buildings.

Also, plagues can spread to/from AI armies and cities, and also through trade routes.

That is good to know! I never liked when some mechanics do not affect the Ai like for example the Ai not getting civil wars but I also understand that the Ai won't be able to handle complex mechanics like players would/could.

Of course there can always be work arounds that "simulate" the effects on the Ai but with simplified mechanics that the Ai can handle.

For example, since the Ai cannot handle the new politic system then perhaps the Ai's civil wars can be triggered if they reach imperium 5 and are not at war with anyone or even better if all the members of the ruling family/house die in a period of 2 turns or something... I am not suggesting this I am just using this as an example =)

Anyways, thanks for the info and I am sure the DeI team will make the most of these new mechanics. I was super happy to see that Dresden already ported both Plagues and Banditry to vanilla Rome 2...

Also, it seems that in patch 18 some things have finally been fixed on the characters creation side (tables) that will probably allow the new family submod by Dresden to improve even further giving us more unique customized historical characters!

The future looks bright for DeI!

[Hydrall]

I am sure the DeI team will make the most of these new mechanics. I was super happy to see that Dresden already ported both Plagues and Banditry to vanilla Rome 2...

Where did you see this? Was there a preview of the upcoming version or something that I didn't see?

[Valmont]

Where did you see this? Was there a preview of the upcoming version or something that I didn't see?

Rome 2's Steam Workshop

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...88&searchtext=

[KYREAPER]

I hate that... if im a defensive player and I focus on sanitation and social reforms, I definitely should not be getting plagues from population.. as im focusing ON building population in a clean, safe manner. So i dont like using it as an unrealistic balance feature.

Plagues were not caused because of some magic number of population reached in real life.
Sure, more people means theres more chance of sickness spreading, but thats a given. Thats just math.

Look at the world now. The world nowadays is very defensive and is not expanding. No one is conquering anyone, and yet population has been increasing for decades.
Population can rise without expansion, to very high levels, without plagues.

I dont like the idea of linking it to population. Seems like an over-balanced annoyance thats based on theory-crafting philosophies instead of realistic dynamics.

[Dresden]

I don't really understand your point. Of course plagues and disease are tied to population levels and impact them as well. If you have a plague going on, its going to decrease your population...

[FlashHeart07]

You have a great example of trade routes and population density having a cruciel effect on the spread of plagues with the spread of Yersinia Pestis killing approx 45% of European population.
Sadly we cannot mimick the evolution of infectious bacteria in the game and therefore has to rely on numbers.


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[Maetharin]

One of the best examples of plagues and their spreading is the Antonine Plague, which most likely came from the eastern legions and spread through trade

[Dresden]

The new plague system actually takes into account trade routes, army presence, etc. Its kind of cool.

[Augustusng]

It's exactly like how it works in Attila, just missing a few features.

[sasquatch32794]

I hate that... if im a defensive player and I focus on sanitation and social reforms, I definitely should not be getting plagues from population.. as im focusing ON building population in a clean, safe manner. So i dont like using it as an unrealistic balance feature.

Plagues were not caused because of some magic number of population reached in real life.
Sure, more people means theres more chance of sickness spreading, but thats a given. Thats just math.

Look at the world now. The world nowadays is very defensive and is not expanding. No one is conquering anyone, and yet population has been increasing for decades.
Population can rise without expansion, to very high levels, without plagues.

I dont like the idea of linking it to population. Seems like an over-balanced annoyance thats based on theory-crafting philosophies instead of realistic dynamics.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

You should absolutely get more plagues when you have more people. The reason we don't have plagues today like the ones that occurred in the past is because we have modern medicine and sanitation. If anything plagues should be unavoidable and the best a player can do is reduce the frequency with which they occur.

Side question. Do you need the dlc for plagues and banditry in the main campaign?

[Dresden]

No, in theory it should work without the DLC.

[Augustusng]

If anything plagues should be unavoidable and the best a player can do is reduce the frequency with which they occur.

Side question. Do you need the dlc for plagues and banditry in the main campaign?

You don't need the DLC for anything we add to the main campaign.

As far as the other thing, I wanted to add a mechanic like that - I have a version of it working (kind of. Needs tweaking) in my Attila overhaul, Europa Perdita. Unfortunately, the plague mechanic CA added for Rome 2 is less detailed than in Attila and I can't make the same kind of changes here. What should still be possible is to have some plagues able to occur despite high sanitation levels, but I don't think I want to add that without the other plague changes I made in EP - those changes counterbalance plagues you can't prevent effectively through building effects that reduce the severity and duration of the plague.

[Vardano]

How harsh plagues would be? How often will they occur?

[Augustusng]

The harshness depends on which plague - some last longer and spread more easily than others.

They only happen when the sanitation level in a region becomes negative, so they'll only occur as often as that's the case. The AI will get a small bonus to help them, since the AI doesn't know how to manage their sanitation levels.

[Vardano]

The harshness depends on which plague - some last longer and spread more easily than others.

They only happen when the sanitation level in a region becomes negative, so they'll only occur as often as that's the case. The AI will get a small bonus to help them, since the AI doesn't know how to manage their sanitation levels.

Thanks for the response. I don't remember many barbarian sanitation buildings compared to Greek or Roman. How this will be balanced?