Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of Ukraine

[Condottiere 40K]

Pretty much the reason you want a longer ranged carrierborne strike aircraft, so that the carrier group doesn't have to contest approaches, or at least as little as possible.

[Dewy]

I'm wondering how much of it is actually going to be Turkish. From what I understand Turkey has strategic ambitions, and one of the requirements of a burgeoning power is it must have a strong indiginous aeronautical industry. TFX is a major step along the (very long) road to having an indiginous capability for designing and building fighter aircraft.

Turkey does not have much in the way of a strong indigenous maritime industry either, so I find it a bit strange they've jumped into the deep end so to speak. Considering Turkey's planned use of the F-35 does that mean they plan for the TFX to be similar to the F-22?

Onslow did it once at one specific occassion, the Gotland class presented itself problematic enough to make them extend the lease for another 12 months for further tests.

Gotland did it once over a 24 month training period. Oberon and Collins class submarines have a far higher kill count on both USN surface ships and submarines. But the USN doesn't need to lease out RAN submarines considering they train together all the time. So like I said it's not particularly surprisingly or uncommon for a diesel electric submarine to "kill" a US carrier.

[Pielstick]

I was reading some interesting stuff about Antonov the other day and how the Russia-Ukraine thing is effecting their plans (Antonov being a Ukrainian company). Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the link but the summary was:

- The joint venture between Antonov and the Russian state arms exporter selling Antonov aircraft around the world is now abandoned.

- Questions about whether Antonov can survive as a state owned company or whether it needs to be privatised.

- Production of the An-70 for the Russian AF is now cancelled.

- Potential plans for re-starting manufacture of the An-124 are now abandoned.

- Antonov now looking at removing Russian manufactured components from existing An-124 aircraft and sourcing them elsewhere.

- Speculation that Antonov may break into the design/manufacture of combat aircraft for the first time, but more likely they will start with UAVs.

[Condottiere 40K]

What little money the Ukrainian state has, it won't be subsidizing Antonov, though they may be in the market for cheap military drones that the Russians can't jam.

[Adar]

Gotland did it once over a 24 month training period. Oberon and Collins class submarines have a far higher kill count on both USN surface ships and submarines. But the USN doesn't need to lease out RAN submarines considering they train together all the time. So like I said it's not particularly surprisingly or uncommon for a diesel electric submarine to "kill" a US carrier.

One might however wonder a bit about what they did during the rest of those 24 months that an Oberon or Collins class could not.

I was reading some interesting stuff about Antonov the other day and how the Russia-Ukraine thing is effecting their plans (Antonov being a Ukrainian company). Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the link but the summary was:

- The joint venture between Antonov and the Russian state arms exporter selling Antonov aircraft around the world is now abandoned.

- Questions about whether Antonov can survive as a state owned company or whether it needs to be privatised.

- Production of the An-70 for the Russian AF is now cancelled.

- Potential plans for re-starting manufacture of the An-124 are now abandoned.

- Antonov now looking at removing Russian manufactured components from existing An-124 aircraft and sourcing them elsewhere.

- Speculation that Antonov may break into the design/manufacture of combat aircraft for the first time, but more likely they will start with UAVs.

This is definitely going to hurt Ukraine. Hopefully they may compensate with some semi-advanced drones but I think it will be very hard for Ukraine to maintain their weapons industry in the future.

[Condottiere 40K]

I believe Putin had been favouring Ilyushin for quite a while for large aircarft, and wanted to Russify the supply chains.

I think that the Chinese should be interested.

[Dewy]

One might however wonder a bit about what they did during the rest of those 24 months that an Oberon or Collins class could not.

Other than run out of fuel? Not much. Collins is the more capable submarine class, which goes to explain why the whole A26 project is going to be cheaper than just one of Australia's future submarines.

[Principe Alessandro]

Saudi Arabia To Build Antonov Cargo Planes

ABU DHABI — Saudi Arabia will manufacture aircraft within two years after the kingdom signed a deal with Ukrainian manufacturer Antonov on Wednesday.


Taqnia Aeronautics Co., a subsidiary of Saudi development and investment company Taqnia, signed an agreement to develop and manufacture the Antonov-32 light cargo plane in Saudi Arabia.


The agreement, signed by Turki Bin Saud Bin Mohammed Al-Saud, chairman of Taqnia Aeronautics and president of the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology, and Dmytro Kiva, president of Antonov, will see a transfer of aviation industry technology to the kingdom and training by Ukrainian experts.


According to Al-Saud, the evolved Antonov-32 will have an extended range and is designed for military and civilian operations.


"Its range will be doubled or more and the kingdom will participate in developing new specifications for the aircraft to co-own this technology with the Antonov company," he said.


"The new Saudi-Ukrainian aircraft will be designed with Western engines from Canada, navigation systems from American company Honeywell, as well as other parts that will be acquired from the UK," he added


The new joint venture will also be limited to Saudi and Ukrainian nationals, a boost to local ambitions and Ukrainian employment needs.


"This is an important agreement for Ukraine and beneficial for Saudi Arabia as it brings the kingdom in to the aviation development and manufacturing industry," Kiva said.


Production will begin within two years, according to a joint statement released by Taqnia and Antonov.


Saudi interest in Antonov goes back to 2013 when Al-Saud visited the company and reviewed their facilities. A Gulf source said contract negotiations commenced seven months ago between the two countries.


"An initial payment of US $150 million was made and the initial plan is to produce eight aircraft," the source told Defense News.


The agreement notes that the aircraft will be built and designed to improve the aircraft's payload, range and takeoff.


The deal also will include full development of the cockpit with sophisticated American-made navigation devices, which will enable the crew to do more difficult tasks, in addition to other features that will greatly increase the aircraft's capability.


The new model will be named Antonov-132 and Saudi Arabia will own the intellectual property and engineering designs for the aircraft.


According to the joint statement, the Antonov-32 was selected after studying Saudi needs and the international market for light transport aircraft in the military and civil sectors.

Well this could be an interesting development, many countries in the Arab world are eager to acquire manufacturing capabilities in the avionic industry.

[Pielstick]

^^Wow. Didn't see that coming.^^

[Love Mountain]

That's interesting. It does make a lot of sense though, Saudi Arabia already operates a lot of Russian equipment.

[Pielstick]

I heard yesterday that Germany is now looking at options for a Tornado replacement.

Both the UK and Italy already have plans for Tornado replacements (upgraded Typhoons supplemented by F-35). Nobody is interested in designing a new aircraft, especially with Germany given their political unreliability with Eurofighter and A400M. It's exceedinly unlikely Germany will go it alone in designing a new jet. Super Hornet is perilously close to the end of its production run so unless Germany gets a move on and makes an order very soon that rules SH out.

So the only two likely options are:

- Upgrading their Typhoons with the kind of A-G capability that the RAF and Italy are integrating into their aircraft, possibly even ordering more Tranche 3 airframes for this role. This might be interesting as up until now Germany has been very disinterested in Eurofighter and would mean an almost complete about face for Germany in its Eurofighter participation.

- Ordering F-35. This is perhaps the more likely, but given Germany has no major stake in F-35 (unlike the UK and Italy) it could possibly mean a major blow for the German military aerospace industry.

[Condottiere 40K]

Best multirole aircraft tended to be the ones where multi-role was not the initial primary consideration.

The Oil emirs are looking for at a post fossil fuel future, so they're investing in lots of things, including buying AMD's fabs; unless they mandate their regional airlines and air cargo corporations to start buying these planes, might be a write off.

[norse]

Best multirole aircraft tended to be the ones where multi-role was not the initial primary consideration.

The Oil emirs are looking for at a post fossil fuel future, so they're investing in lots of things, including buying AMD's fabs; unless they mandate their regional airlines and air cargo corporations to start buying these planes, might be a write off.

Yes I have been thinking about this. Interesting that you bring up the Global Foundries. After I learned about the Dubai control over Global Foundries I actually really want them to get in to make Dubai a center of high tech industry, and a competitor to Intel and TSMC. Of course now that the desktop and mobile markets are somewhat merging, there are other foundries to consider like Samsung. And I hope the the PRC does start offering competitive computing products, as not only will it offer major competition to Intel, but it will force other companies to offer higher quality products to compete with Chinese processors that are obviously going to be very competitive in price. The high tech industry is something any country can do regardless of their geography or resources, so it is a good idea for most any country, for example Norway after oil, or Singapore or other city-states with no major territory or natural resources.

[Mangalore]

I heard yesterday that Germany is now looking at options for a Tornado replacement.

Both the UK and Italy already have plans for Tornado replacements (upgraded Typhoons supplemented by F-35). Nobody is interested in designing a new aircraft, especially with Germany given their political unreliability with Eurofighter and A400M. It's exceedinly unlikely Germany will go it alone in designing a new jet. Super Hornet is perilously close to the end of its production run so unless Germany gets a move on and makes an order very soon that rules SH out.

So the only two likely options are:

- Upgrading their Typhoons with the kind of A-G capability that the RAF and Italy are integrating into their aircraft, possibly even ordering more Tranche 3 airframes for this role. This might be interesting as up until now Germany has been very disinterested in Eurofighter and would mean an almost complete about face for Germany in its Eurofighter participation.

- Ordering F-35. This is perhaps the more likely, but given Germany has no major stake in F-35 (unlike the UK and Italy) it could possibly mean a major blow for the German military aerospace industry.

They are not looking for options. Like the Leopard 3 it just kicked off requirement studies to create the missions specs a future aircraft needs to fill for the role. They also passed another project for a combat enhancement for the remaining Tornado fleet until 2030 aka another decade on top of the current plans. They even said they do not even know if they want an unmanned drone or a manned aircraft or maybe even a hybrid that can operate both ways. The plan is to have preliminary talks in 2016 what features European partners look for in the same niche and if a common design specification can be created.

Any evaluation of existing aircraft or preparation for a design project would only come after that.

These things are long term 10-20 years procurement projects.


@Saudi Arabia Antonov deal: I feel the main problem for the Gulf states is not buying tech or people, it's getting something domestic staying. To me even seeming success stories like Dubai look more like a chimera. These economies only work due to imported knowhow of foreigners who have no desire to stay in a place which does not welcome them. Once they leave the knowhow will be gone again.

[Condottiere 40K]

The Albanian Air Force Is Up For Auction

​A MiG-19 might just be the ultimate lawn ornament​.

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By Kyle Mizokami
Feb 4, 2016Ever wanted a Soviet-era fighter of your own? Don't really care if it stays up in the air or not? You're in luck!






The government of Albania is planning to auction off 40 airplanes, including obsolete fighters and helicopters. The sale, scheduled for late February, is expected to rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars in state revenue.
A communist country during the Cold War, Albania drifted between being allies of the USSR and China, receiving arms from both countries during the 1960s and 70s. Nestled between Greece and the Adriatic Sea, Albania has since joined NATO and abandoned most of its Cold War military equipment.

The aircraft up for auction include six F-7A fighters, a Chinese copy of the Soviet MiG-21. There are also 10 MiG-19 fighters of Chinese or Soviet origin, six Yak-18 trainers, and four Mi-4 transport helicopters.
There is no indication that any of the aircraft are in flying condition. The country retired the last of its fighter planes in 2005, so it's likely none of the fighters in auction have been flown for more than a decade. Many of the planes likely up for auction, including MiG-19s and Yak-18s, appear on Google Maps at Kuçovë airfield, one of Albania's two remaining air force bases. Unless you can travel to Albania, this is probably the only auction preview you're going to get.
The auction, which is expected to raise at least $485,000 for the Albanian government, will be held in the Albanian capital of Tirana on February 22nd. If you miss this auction, don't worry—if it goes well the government has plenty more planes to sell.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...s-helicopters/

[Ziltoid]

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ira...-ad-1758682242

Iran looking to get SU-30s and T-90S from Russia (or build em locally with license and help), after anti-nuke deal and slightly opened markets.

[Adar]

Found two very interesting articles on modern fighter jet comparisons by Justin Bronk from the RUSI institute. The first one is regarding the Eurofighter vs Rafale and explains the differences in their design and weapons.

Full article
The Rafale and Typhoon share common programme roots and as such are fairly similar in design and aerodynamic philosophy. The biggest difference is in the optimisation of the wing aerofoil and camber shapes, as well as the aerodynamically coupled vs uncoupled canards. Aerodynamically coupled/uncoupled canards refer to the interaction between the lift created by the canards and the lift created by the leading edges of the wings. Uncoupled canards -i.e further from the wing- allow greater control authority due to a greater moment from the centre of lift, but cannot be used to improve the high-alpha performance of the wing.
Essentially Typhoon is aerodynamically designed to maximise manoeuvrability at supersonic speeds and relatively light (i.e. air superiority) load-outs. By contrast, Rafale’s coupled canards and wing shape is optimised for maximum lift generation and ordinance carrying capacity over a wide speed and angle of attack envelope.

The second article compares the SU-35 to contemporary western designs including the F-22 in the full article. As Justin Bronks is affiliated with the Eurofighter it is mostly focused on the SU-35 vs Typhoon but he also compare it to American fighters and the other Eurocanards.

Full article

Which set-ups would favour which aircraft?
High and fast in BVR combat and rules of engagement which allow long range missile shots would favour Typhoon, especially once Meteor is fully integrated next year. WVR combat, especially at lower altitudes and speeds favour the Su-35. During a sudden incident as part of, say Baltic Air Policing, where both aircraft would typically be at medium altitude and at close range during QRA intercepts, Su-35S would likely be a real handful for Typhoon.
Which aircraft, all things being equal, would have an advantage?
I would certainly still take a Typhoon going into a hypothetical ‘all things equal’ scenario, because of its superior kinematics at high altitudes and speeds which allow it to have control of an engagement except in specific scenarios.
....

And against the Saab Gripen and Dassault Rafale?
Gripen is a bit of an unknown quantity against modern air superiority machines because it takes a fundamentally different approach to survivability. Whilst in traditional DCT exercises, Typhoon pilots have often referred to the Gripen as ‘cannon-fodder’ due to its inferior thrust-to-weight ratio, speed, agility and armament, in the few cases where the Gripen has ‘come to play’ with its full electronic warfare capabilities, it has given Typhoons very nasty shocks. Against the Su-35S, Gripen would rely on the cutting edge EW capabilities which Saab builds the Gripen (especially the new E/F) around to hide the aircraft from the sensors of the Russian jets in much the same way as the Raptor relies on x-band stealth. These EW capabilities are so highly classified that there is simply no way to assess their effectiveness in the public domain. Having said that, RAF pilots who I have talked to with experience of the Saab fighter’s EW teeth first hand say that the ability of the aircraft to get alarmingly close without detection thanks entirely to EW is very impressive.

Rafale is in a similar position as Typhoon relative to Su-35, but with less of a kinematic advantage over the Su-35 at high altitudes and BVR ranges, and being closer to parity on manoeuvrability at medium and low altitudes than Typhoon. Equally, the excellent SPECTRA system on Rafale would give it more offensive and defensive options in the EW space against Su-35 than Typhoon would have.

All in all I think the articles provide a pretty good insight about what is known (and not known) about current fighter designs. Bronks seem to be very reluctant in talking too much about future developments such as the F-35, the AESA for the Eurofighter Typhoon and expected performance of the Gripen E/F. But it is very interesting to see how current designs are working and it is a bit frightening to consider the fact that all European fighter designs are built to rely mainly on BVR combat but have been heavily invested in waiting for the Meteor.

As a Swede I am also surprised (and pleased) that the EW capabilities of the Gripen C/D are so well regarded. I have always considered the C/D design to be weaker than the A/B and E/F designs as it lost many of the features that made the A/B version unique in return for increased range and bomb carrying capabilities. But it is good to hear that the EW partially compensate and make the fighter a credible threat in BVR combat despite being under powered relative to its weight.

[Adar]

Other than run out of fuel? Not much. Collins is the more capable submarine class, which goes to explain why the whole A26 project is going to be cheaper than just one of Australia's future submarines.

The Västergötland class is a capable class of submarines and I am glad that the Collins class serve Australia well despite the issues of modifying the Västergötland class design to your needs as you lack the capability of designing your own submarines. It will be interesting to see what class of submarines you select for the next generation but it is rather odd that you decide to brag about the high price tag before even settling for a design.

[Dewy]

The Västergötland class is a capable class of submarines and I am glad that the Collins class serve Australia well despite the issues of modifying the Västergötland class design to your needs as you lack the capability of designing your own submarines.

They serve Australia well only after Australia and the US fixed the numerous and major issues with it*. Not to mention the herculean effort of the RAN's submariners (no bias there ). Not all of the Collins class is Swedish, just ask Kockums they'll tell you ASC know more about the class than they do. Not surprisingly considering a large amount of the engineers at ASC through out the project were Australian not Swedish. Then there are the numerous components sourced else where like French sonar and electric engines (Another reason I think DCNS has a good chance to win the CEP). Then there is the top secret stuff that was never shared with Sweden like the anechoic tiles which are Australian. Or things like the alloy and unconventional but stronger welding techniques.

Sweden may be able to design a submarine but they clearly can't construct them. As the only major construction defects were on sections 300 and 600 for HMAS Collins, the only two hull sections made by Kockums. Kockums didn't even notice the welding defects despite hundreds of visually noticeable defects.

*The Collins Class were incredibly loud until the DSTO fixed the design of the hull and the USN and GDEB fixed the propeller design.

It will be interesting to see what class of submarines you select for the next generation but it is rather odd that you decide to brag about the high price tag before even settling for a design.

Australia's future submarine is going to displace more than double a single A26. Hardly surprising it's going to cost more. Speaking of the price in the Defence White Paper released last month it was estimated 12 new submarines will cost $50 billion. Ouch.

[Stavroforos]

http://theaviationist.com/2016/03/24...ng-a10-anyway/

Looks like A-10 will be retiring in 2018...