Gentlemen ..this place,...

[Omnipotent-Q]

100~ peoples online at any one time? Is Warhammer not drawing? In the past, I've seen activity go up in Summer periods after TW releases (people have more time on their hands for gaming etc).

11 years ago I didn't think this site would still be here, never mind the Curia. Maybe the Curia should start dealing in some sort of welfare for the TWC pensioners among us because honestly, I think most of us (including myself) that have been here a decade or more are out of touch with the kind of demographic we were in when we originally joined (15/16/17 year olds). Let's be honest, in this era of Facebook, Twitter and endless internet smut we got nothing in the Curia that can truly compete. I mean we're talking "reform", "top-down approaches", "bring back cdec". Would any of these really excite any of you 11 years ago, when you were 15/16/17, if the web had everything it has now?

This is the crux of the matter - every reform that has gone no where is a combination of boring to the main joining demographic/everyone, overly bureaucratic, lacking in power, or a waste of everyone's time. Cdec was boring for everyone not on it - a waste of everyone's time where it pissed off important modders and excited absolutely no one.

If you want some action, pass a bill making 60 to 70 members citizens without an application process and let some new blood, a new generation, mould the Curia into something new and fresh. This is pretty much why the Curia was so active in the time period you said - not long before it a bunch of people were given citizenship/patrician badges without much process at all and they pushed it in a direction. There's no direction in the Curia today - just words - a load of wind no poo.

I'm always up for new and exciting things

I wish my girlfriend said that

[Sir Adrian]

It's not just the Curia, the entire site seems to be in some sort of lethargy. Everything except the mudpit and some areas of staff seems to have either slowed down to 5 knots or simply stopped dead.

[PikeStance]

It's not just the Curia, the entire site seems to be in some sort of lethargy. Everything except the mudpit and some areas of staff seems to have either slowed down to 5 knots or simply stopped dead.

I think you nailed it! I made a comment during Winter break that the administration of the site seems to be invisible. I can remember when I first became active on the site and I had a post I thought I had made disappeared. I said something about it and within 2 hours I think every admin responded. If I post something today, I think I would be lucky to get ONE in 48 hours.

I once made a post inquiring about citizenship. In last than three hours I was an arrogant jerk to some and my PM box had at least two patronage offerings. Now, I think the post could go about a week with not much fanfare.

A site only as much energy as the mount of energy the members put into it. There is little put in, so there is little to felt. This is across the board.

Citizenship needs to be something more than just a neat color, user title. The site honors contributors by bestowing badge and color and in return they expect citizens to be role models. However, the expectation is greater than the gift. Despite the purpose to have a say on how the site is run, there is no real say. No voice, as I said in my last message.

The best way to bring back the energy is to rebuild the sense of community. However, it takes a little energy to create energy and bad energy subtracts.

+++ For Omni - always great to read your insight!

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Declassified information:
To be fair the slowing down of the Scriptorium is entirely my fault. Some Librarians are constantly at it. I just need to look over their stuff. Was planning a writing competition but decided the time was not yet right and I will postpone it until October or November. Also I am secretly planning a sort of overhaul of the Scriptorium as a department so as to better coordinate efforts with those that are constantly creating content. I figured since we have slowed taking my time won't really be a problem (have also been busy in real life). To be honest almost no one is making content so there isn't much that we can do. I'm beginning to think that departments like the Scriptorium are becoming an obsolete organization. If you would permit me I say the news team scours the Scriptorium and starts putting some of those articles on the front page. I wouldn't even be against a merger of sorts either. If you care to know I will explain. Moreover I have allowed those serving under me to take their own initiative and given them a training manual (provided by Settra) and a training regimen (provided by me) so that we can have skilled labour take up positions if need be.

Assessment:
The Mudpit is probably the most active part of TWC right now. That is also where I have been most active because the TD and VV have slowed down. People like to jump on relevant topics and it seems that oh so many people have actually lost faith in Total War games and for some reason history (the VV) doesn't have as much pull anymore. I am just more surprised that the TD, a place where I would think everyone can go has been so inactive.

As much of an elitist snob that I am I think expanding the Citizenship base might actually do some good. Maybe not outright throwing citizenship to every pleb but lowering the criteria significantly.

I know this is about the Curia but the issues, I believe at least, are on and the same and we are all feeling it. I guess what I am saying is the Curia is a mere droplet, we need to reform the whole damn structure.

[Frunk]

it seems that oh so many people have actually lost faith in Total War games

Expanding on this somewhat - and I think this has been more or less said before - but I believe part of the problem is the lack of mod-ability of the newer TW titles. This isn't even a CA criticism, but the days of "Hey, can we make a LotR or GoT overhaul?" are gone, because you can't change the map, and many other things. Once the response of "No, that's impossible." is given, people lose interest, instead of back in the day when they might have been more inclined to learn to mod, put in the hard yards, join a team, get active in the community, become Citizens, and all that jazz.

Of course, there are countless great mods for the newer titles, but we all know they're just not as flexible. The above does not happen, and the TW sections have suffered because of it.

[PikeStance]

The only game you can change the map is Med2. There have been plenty of new modders modding later titles like, ETW, NTW, S2TW, etc.... The quality of games have increase, so there is less modding necessary really. I do not think TWC has ever really "catered" to the Modding community. It sort of been kept for granted. It seems to go out of its way for content, but nothing else.

As Omni and other have stated, there are a lot competition for people's time. The key is community and community needs energy. I do have an idea based on an old idea, but I wonder if people will simply dismiss it outright or give it some thought. I do not know. Any idea needs a willing admin and the current admin comes across as defensive and lethargic.

[Flinn]

Mhe always the same story, over and over; if only people could stop blaming the others, it would already be a sensible step forward. There's always the chance to contribute and increase traffic to the site, no need for admins, staffers or anyone else to follow up, really.

There are plenty of reasons why the Curia is so useless nowadays, but this has little to do with the limited site activity of these days; anyone really interested in TWC should only keep contributing without any second goal (such as rep, awards or even a simple "hey, great idea mate!"); for ages the site has based its life over free contributions, nothing has changed from this point of view, IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I like my shinies and I'm always in favor of giving awards to people deserving them, but contributing is actually an "act of faith"; you do it because you want/like to do so, no result is granted; that's where the Curia (simply meant as those who hold the citizen badge) could do the difference: looking around hard for new citizens and people deserving awards (in particular for large awards there's way too much resistance, even to the point of appealing to silly bureaucratic excuses); the whole RPG stuff, Cdec crap and such could have worked fine for the benefit of the Curia itself, but not for the site in general, IMO.

Way too much people has tried to tie the actual slow activity with the impoverishment of the Curial activities and/or use this excuse to justify less activity and commitment on his/her own side, thanks to the Dude we still have some great contributors and I can ensure you that the admins are not sleeping and that anyone gets what he really deserves from them.

If you want some action, pass a bill making 60 to 70 members citizens without an application process and let some new blood, a new generation, mould the Curia into something new and fresh.

This would work to renew and freshen the Curia, but it won't do much for the site IMO; anyhow, I'm sure there are even more than 60 o 70 lads deserving citizenship, without the need to squeeze the rules: all that it's needed is a faster procedure and a faster protocol (IMO, the support phase is useless, let's go for the vote; the discussion phase is useless too, simply cast your vote and give your reasons if you like, or simply move along). Easier, faster, more efficient; the only way to make it appetizing to people is to make it easier to come in, which would be perfectly fine considering how nul is the impact of the Curia on the site administration nowadays (I would even get rid of the silly "higher standards of behaviour" it's really a useless heritage of a time long gone).

[Veteraan]

(...)
If you want some action, pass a bill making 60 to 70 members citizens without an application process and let some new blood, a new generation, mould the Curia into something new and fresh. (...)

This would work to renew and freshen the Curia, but it won't do much for the site IMO; anyhow, I'm sure there are even more than 60 o 70 lads deserving citizenship, without the need to squeeze the rules: all that it's needed is a faster procedure and a faster protocol (IMO, the support phase is useless, let's go for the vote; the discussion phase is useless too, simply cast your vote and give your reasons if you like, or simply move along). Easier, faster, more efficient; the only way to make it appetizing to people is to make it easier to come in, which would be perfectly fine considering how nul is the impact of the Curia on the site administration nowadays (I would even get rid of the silly "higher standards of behaviour" it's really a useless heritage of a time long gone).

I don't think this would do much good at all. Apart from the difficult task of selecting 70 members to be "gifted" Citizenship, there is no guarantee they would be interested in being active in the Curia at all, let alone putting in an effort to revive it. If the the current Citizens, that have proved their commitment to this site through various contributions, don't do it I very much doubt others will.

Apart from that, when we start making members Citizens without a proper application we certainly would increase the number of Citizens, but for me that badge would instantly become totally worthless and make me less inclined to be active here. Yes, I like that there is something that needs a real effort to obtain and the satisfaction it brings to having achieved it, even when it something only to be seen on a Internet forum.

Simplifying the Citizen application procedure like Flinn mentions is something we could do though, as long as we still can see what contributions the applicant made.

[PikeStance]

I am not sure it is possible to make citizens application any easier. There is two paragraphs (one by the patron and one by the client). There is two days of debate and then a vote lasting 5 days. The entire process takes just 7 days.
It is also not a requirement to write a "dissertation" either. I think people make the process sound more difficult than it really is.

People also like to pretend the Curia was the Devil's Den. Granted as it lost power to run the site, people fought over the scraps that remained. What is forgotten, however, is that the Curia was in the forefront in establishing this site. It help create the uniqueness of site and made it the attraction that propelled it to the top. It is not surprising the sites lethargy is connected with the Curia's lack utility.

I said it before.... You can gain a whole new perspective reading the history of the site. You will quickly understand what this site was, what it is now and what it can still be in the future. It is far too easy to just "throw in the towel."

[Flinn]

lol I think that the real issue here is that not everyone understands that the Curia has nothing to do with site management nowadays and that it's up to the owner and the Hex council to decide the path for the future of the site (or so I see the whole matter). As "regular" members all we can do is keeping contributing at our best, because we want to do it, nothing more, nothing less.

I deem that someone believes that by "reforming the Curia" you can bring it back to previous levels of powers, while this is just utopia, IMO. If anyone has a good idea, nobody will impede it to be shared to the community or to be forwarded to any administrator if it belongs to the high powers; whether this will be listened to or followed up it's another story, and it's dependant on many things, some of which might be obscure to anyone outside staff or administration.

The important is to keep contributing and proposing without expecting anything in return; for sure I myself do not consider the Curia the place to propose important changes to the site, outside of the limited RPG stuff strictly bound to the Curia itself the place it's useless in terms of "changes". I propose a lot of stuff as a Content Director and as a member of the Staff in general, but not everything has a follow up; when it happens, I just move on, 'cause such is life

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Ahhhh....."This Place". Remember folks, that time stands still for no man, or even the coolest of TWC Babes. Now days there's lots to do, and having intimate fireside chats in the Curia is not that high on the list for the present and current time being. Total War Hammer and the onslaught of You tube presentations and possiblities has opened up new frontiers that demand exploration.

There are currently 1834 users online. 139 members and 1682 guests

That's ite for 2 in the afternoon on a monday I suppose...

Originally Posted by Halie Satanus
If I had a pound for every time the Curia has been pronounced dead I'd have a very heavy sack indeed.

Glass of water, for Mr. Hailie....

No external threats and no onsite "Hatfields and Mccoy" fueding, no CdeC et al, whitles Da Curia down to basics. Bringing DA Bling to worthy and un acknoweledged members. Speaking of unacknoweledged members, Pike I owe you a big apology for dropping out of sight and leaving you flying solo to try and stir up interest round these parts.

Well the offsite Bipolar Appocolypses have been sated, so I'm back to give you guys a hand. This place screams for a few Opifex petitions and what nots so give us a day or two throw something up on the "Big Board".


Gladiators I salute you

[PikeStance]

lol I think that the real issue here is that not everyone understands that the Curia has nothing to do with site management nowadays and that it's up to the owner and the Hex council to decide the path for the future of the site (or so I see the whole matter). As "regular" members all we can do is keeping contributing at our best, because we want to do it, nothing more, nothing less.

It is just the opposite. People know that the Curia has nothing to do with management. It claims that the Curia can "make suggestions" but it rarely act on them or even to implement as approved by the Curia.
The Curia was most active when it did play a role in site management. When it lost that power, activity dropped. What replaced it was mostly RPG and Curia politics within the Curia itself. With the removal of the CdeC, even the RPG'ers had little need of the Curia.

We talk as if citizenship is something meaningful, but it actually has very little meaning to site. You get the color and badge, but in return your behavior is under a microscope. The risk punishment far outweighs the reward. The site honros you with recognition of your contribution, but condescendingly denies your input on what changes you might want to see. In fact, even great contributors (like Phalera and Opifex members) have "zero" say unless they just so happen to be an admin. It is not the least surprising that there isn't any one patronizing. in the past 8 months there have been 16 application with 15 passing by only "7" patrons[1]. members have little problem accepting citizenship, but they see little point or benefit of citizenship once they become citizens. if they did, they certainly would be more patrons. And please spare the altruism discussion. You cannot offer a "carrot" in instant and then expect someone to do something for the some internal moral and ethical good.

I deem that someone believes that by "reforming the Curia" you can bring it back to previous levels of powers, while this is just utopia, IMO. If anyone has a good idea, nobody will impede it to be shared to the community or to be forwarded to any administrator if it belongs to the high powers; whether this will be listened to or followed up it's another story, and it's dependant on many things, some of which might be obscure to anyone outside staff or administration.

The best way for the site to compete with social media is to be a "social media" itself, by promoting community. Community can be built in many ways. TWC will have a very limiting shelf life if it sits back defiantly assuming paternalistic " know better." Content as loss its importance since the ever growing popularity of tutorial's, guides, and "let's Play." Ironically, TWC channel on youtube is incredibly silent. (It is the one thing that needs to be broadcasting and it isn't). Steam ease of use is also slowing driving modders away; yet, the site has done little to address the issue. Ironically, the Curia could function as a place of ideas, but many modders feel alienated and the poor reputation of the Curia makes this task difficult to implement. There will never be a perfect system. A balance would have to be made between the interest of the group and the investment of money and time by the owner of the site. However, thus far no effort is being made. Personally, it is no "skin off my nose," but I sure to see the history and tradition of TWC created by Paul long ago disappear into obscurity.

Speaking of unacknoweledged members, Pike I owe you a big apology for dropping out of sight and leaving you flying solo to try and stir up interest round these parts.

Well the offsite Bipolar Appocolypses have been sated, so I'm back to give you guys a hand. This place screams for a few Opifex petitions and what nots so give us a day or two throw something up on the "Big Board".

No worries Mega. Up until a few weeks ago I was also very silent visiting on annual home pilgrimage.

[1]- Finlander (1) Iskar (1) Korki...(1) Mega... (2) Magnar (2) Wangrin (3) and PikeStance (6)

[Flinn]

And please spare the altruism discussion. You cannot offer a "carrot" in instant and then expect someone to do something for the some internal moral and ethical good.

Unfortunately, this is how it works IMO and this is where we will never agree I fear I'm rather sure that the different approach also comes from a different perspective IRL. I, for instance, don't feel the urge to compete with any social network and again I believe it's a matter of different perspectives: for me, TWC is the modding community and all the world that rotates around, all the rest of the stuff is just complementary (even though I spent most of my time in the non TW areas of the site) and that's why I seriously undertakes my duties in the Staff and in particular with the ES (and you know this well, I'm sure). Trying to make TWC into something different than a TW fan site supporting modders and modding community, would be useless and a non-sense and hence I'm not surprised that the admins are not interested in such a change, honestly

edit:

You get the color and badge, but in return your behavior is under a microscope. The risk punishment far outweighs the reward.

for once, we agree on something We need to get rid of this silly higher standards; it won't save the day, but would be a start at least. I'm still convinced that the Curia can do a lot in promoting citizens and giving out awards and I don't see anything wrong with clearly stating that the "state of citizen" is a simple award and recognition of people who contributed sensibly to TWC and that no one is expecting anything else from a brand new citizen more than what he/she already did; then, if anyone is interested, you can also access the curial elections (whatever they will be, magistrates are perfectly fine IMO and the curator too, though I would make the position into a more real moderator of the Curial fora) and the other bureaucratical/rpg stuff that, and that should be clarified, is merely related to the Curia and will have little to no impact in the site everyday's life.

Anyhow, going OT now and surely it's not the first time I state my believes, so time to move on; one thing is sure: whatever one might think or dream for the Curia, as long as it generates even just a +1 per day on the site traffic, it proved useful; and I agree with Halie, it might be ill, but it won't die.

[PikeStance]

Unfortunately, this is how it works IMO and this is where we will never agree I fear I'm rather sure that the different approach also comes from a different perspective IRL. I, for instance, don't feel the urge to compete with any social network and again I believe it's a matter of different perspectives: for me, TWC is the modding community and all the world that rotates around, all the rest of the stuff is just complementary (even though I spent most of my time in the non TW areas of the site) and that's why I seriously undertakes my duties in the Staff and in particular with the ES (and you know this well, I'm sure). Trying to make TWC into something different than a TW fan site supporting modders and modding community, would be useless and a non-sense and hence I'm not surprised that the admins are not interested in such a change, honestly

TWC has always been a community. It isn't really anymore. It should return to what made it, not abandon it.
The modding community id drifting away. Soon all that will remain is the non-TW part of the site. Even there, you have members "rage quitting."

for once, we agree on something We need to get rid of this silly higher standards; it won't save the day, but would be a start at least. I'm still convinced that the Curia can do a lot in promoting citizens and giving out awards and I don't see anything wrong with clearly stating that the "state of citizen" is a simple award and recognition of people who contributed sensibly to TWC and that no one is expecting anything else from a brand new citizen more than what he/she already did; then, if anyone is interested, you can also access the curial elections (whatever they will be, magistrates are perfectly fine IMO and the curator too, though I would make the position into a more real moderator of the Curial fora) and the other bureaucratical/rpg stuff that, and that should be clarified, is merely related to the Curia and will have little to no impact in the site everyday's life.

If you feel this way, we do not agree at all. Citizenship is already treated as an award and the site is drifting into oblivion.

Concerning the duties of the Curator. The position is already a moderator. The Curator can issue a Curial warning which would be subject to referral. With respect the Curia, this is as far as it needs to go.

Anyhow, going OT now and surely it's not the first time I state my believes, so time to move on; one thing is sure: whatever one might think or dream for the Curia, as long as it generates even just a +1 per day on the site traffic, it proved useful; and I agree with Halie, it might be ill, but it won't die.

If present trend continues, the Curia would die along with the site.

[FrostySOTF]

Some sort of site-wide games or a tournament/something might generate some interest? Could be hyped up a lot, has potential but not sure how that could tie into citizenship, if anybody likes that sort of idea I could expand.

(maybe hosted by your friendly neighborhood curia?)

[Sir Adrian]

It could tie in quite easily if you play on the community spirit card. Participating in several tournaments and helping maintain a fun friendly attitude should be enough by any reasonable standards

[Tostig]

*rattles chains*

Why come to TWC? In the olden days (For me 2007ish), there were no real social networking sites. Total War games weren't on steam, and there wasn't a steam workshop.

So there was discussion and content creation here. Visitors gained a lot by 'using' the site.

These days I still play TW games in fits and bursts, but I don't see much point in contributing. Perhaps I'm just getting old and grumpy?

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Yeah but social networks are for unwashed plebs. Facebook and Twitter are vacuous and boring.

[PikeStance]

*rattles chains*

Why come to TWC? In the olden days (For me 2007ish), there were no real social networking sites. Total War games weren't on steam, and there wasn't a steam workshop.

So there was discussion and content creation here. Visitors gained a lot by 'using' the site.

These days I still play TW games in fits and bursts, but I don't see much point in contributing. Perhaps I'm just getting old and grumpy?

My impression of facebook is that it was at its peak between 2007-2010. I didn't actually join until 2008. I do not know about anyone else, it is now a continuous stream of one meme after another. Twitter isn't much use either unless you want to stalk the every whim of someone famous. I honestly only maintain a presence on facebook because I live overseas and it is a convenient way to keep track of people. I do not think I would bother if I still lived in the states. If I live that near someone on facebook I think I would want to be in the pictures and not viewing them on line. Then again, I grew up where kids spent their time riding bikes and playing an endless game of two man touch football. Heck, we even figured out a way to play 1v1 american football (imagine how we figure out to pass the ball).

Anyway, if you play the game and you want to share than that is how you can contribute. Some get into discussing other things, like politics or what not in the TD.

As far as people using the site,... well the days of content are over! People do not read content like they used to. It is easier to passively watch a youtube blabber on about it. The last vestige of content are tutorials for modding, but I am sure youtube will have more and more of that as well.

If TWC wants to survive it needs to ultimately redefine itself as a "hub" of Total War rather just a forum that offers some content. Then again, I beginning to sound like a broken record here. (oh wait, some of y'all have never experience that before )

[Iskar]

What a funny thread to read. Considering that complaining about a culture of complaining rather than acting would fall afoul of just that I shall remain silent on the matter and leave this meta-discussion to itself, except for this silly meta-meta-remark.

PS: If you just want to blow up something, the RPG forums might be the place to go. The best you can hope for here are cheap jabs at long abandoned suggestions.