Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

[Slytacular]

The different tiers determine military technology of the time. Sweden is just lacking later technological units at the moment.

[blackfang12]

Mmh, I know that, with top tier I just mean that it ought to be a good unit. Maybe not equal to the best of the French heavy cavalry or something like that, but still a really good unit

[Whitey McKnightey]

I've read it was rather rare for the Swedish and Finnish "knights" to actually fight in the European cavalry fashion. The mounts were used to provide mobility, but once the knights wanted to join the battle, they would dismount and fight on foot. This is due to the nordic terrain in which they fought. Sweden and Finland (where most of Swedish wars were fought during this period) is was densly forrested, wild land with few open fields or valleys to suit cavalry tactics. So, I don't think Swedish cavalry should be very elite. Instead they could have a more "elite" infantry version.


EDIT: Removed the part that was obsolete.

[blackfang12]

Nah, that was more early period. Once they modernized their Men-at-Arms/Squires (Svennar. The full name was Sven-vid-Arm, or Sven-at-Arms. Recieved knightly training, but haven't gotten knighted due to only the king being able to knight people) started to fight more and more like their mainland counterparts. Heck, landowners, when wealthy enough were obligated by law to own a warhorse to ride in battle

[Aguirre]

Stoked to be able to play as the Swedes, as a swede. Will they have access to the Gotland units aswell? and the Hanseatic ones? you guys have done a great job on their roster. But of course Im greedy for more units

[Konrad S]

Yeah, regional units would be very fitting. Sami, Finnish, Gotlandish and of course the famous Dalecarlians.

[Aguirre]

I will surely make a submod for the Swedes if possible to include the above ones. Dalecarlians, are there any resources for those? are you one of them perhaps?

[Slytacular]

Sami didn't provide military units. They paid the tax of fish and leather instead. I'll have to do some more reading around for Finnish Tribes. I can't find anything on Dalecarlians except toy horses and longest lasting runic alphabet, and maybe some revolts here and there. Were there any special military units from Dalarna?

[blackfang12]

Sami didn't provide military units. They paid the tax of fish and leather instead. I'll have to do some more reading around for Finnish Tribes. I can't find anything on Dalecarlians except toy horses and longest lasting runic alphabet, and maybe some revolts here and there. Were there any special military units from Dalarna?

My understanding is that they were mostly just considered a hardy, and bit isolated people often up for a good fight. Which is why Gustav Vasa specifically went there when rebelling against Denmark


Oh, and a question: have you decided to go with the a three tier heavy Cav system for Sweden?
With the svens as the young men that have recieved knightly training but haven't been knighted. (Fun tidbit, there was a Swedish King who was a Sven his whole life, cause his dad couldn't knight him before he died, and for some reason he just didn't Knight himself)

Knights as the guys that have garnered enough political connections and glory on the battlefield to get the king to knight them and give them their golden spurs

And The Frälse who are the top cream of Aristocracy (Technically Knights were part of this class too). Though they might fit better as the lords and generals.

Tier is maybe bad phrasing. But ranking.

(I'd appreciate it if a Mod could merge these posts as I havenät unlocked the ability to Edit them yet)


Basically how the knightly system in Sweden worked: During the 13th century the Kingdom of Sweden centralized, with the last bit of big resistance against it being crushed at the battle of Sparrsätra 1247.
And though Sweden had Frälse and some form of Heavy Cavalry before, by 1280 The King made a formal declaration of the establishment of Nobility, and that those that served him as mounted knights would be elevated to the "Adel" and liberated from taxation (So yes, this meant that those dubbed knights always served the king directly). Other nobility would also be responsible for supplying the king with soldiers.

So essentially, since I misremembered a bit before.
Svens: The base Heavy Cavalry of Sweden, recieved knightly traiing
Knights: The handpicked Elite serving the king directly.

Unlike Svens, the Knights would also have their own Heraldry

[Leonardo]

Posts merged.

(I'd appreciate it if a Mod could merge these posts as I havenät unlocked the ability to Edit them yet)

You need 25 posts before you can edit your posts.

[Kjertesvein]

My understanding is that they were mostly just considered a hardy, and bit isolated people often up for a good fight. Which is why Gustav Vasa specifically went there when rebelling against Denmark


Oh, and a question: have you decided to go with the a three tier heavy Cav system for Sweden?
With the svens as the young men that have recieved knightly training but haven't been knighted. (Fun tidbit, there was a Swedish King who was a Sven his whole life, cause his dad couldn't knight him before he died, and for some reason he just didn't Knight himself)

Knights as the guys that have garnered enough political connections and glory on the battlefield to get the king to knight them and give them their golden spurs

And The Frälse who are the top cream of Aristocracy (Technically Knights were part of this class too). Though they might fit better as the lords and generals.

Tier is maybe bad phrasing. But ranking.

(I'd appreciate it if a Mod could merge these posts as I havenät unlocked the ability to Edit them yet)


Basically how the knightly system in Sweden worked: During the 13th century the Kingdom of Sweden centralized, with the last bit of big resistance against it being crushed at the battle of Sparrsätra 1247.
And though Sweden had Frälse and some form of Heavy Cavalry before, by 1280 The King made a formal declaration of the establishment of Nobility, and that those that served him as mounted knights would be elevated to the "Adel" and liberated from taxation (So yes, this meant that those dubbed knights always served the king directly). Other nobility would also be responsible for supplying the king with soldiers.

So essentially, since I misremembered a bit before.
Svens: The base Heavy Cavalry of Sweden, recieved knightly traiing
Knights: The handpicked Elite serving the king directly.

Unlike Svens, the Knights would also have their own Heraldry

I've been binge reading the Scandi-wars of 1280-1320 for a while now, such as biographies of Jarl Alv Erlingsson and King Haakon the 5th of Norway. It's like Game of Thrones on steroids, unbelievably fascinating. Non-stop action and war. To top that off, if I had a nickle for every time someone broke an oath and turned their back on friends, I would be the richest man on earth. One thing I noticed was how the king of Sweden (Birger) was a complete tool for just about anyone sitting on a horse. I've heard the same words about medieval Swedish monarchs in general by other historians.

Weak king, strong nobles. One relevant example was Duke Erik of Sweden: he carved his own recognized kingdom in the center of Scandinavia, fought against all the Scandinavian kings simultaneously and came out as a legend. I remember one diplomatic incident in Bohuslen between the king Norway and the Swedish duke, it was basically peace talks and Haakon had the upper hand at this point. The peace talks ended abruptly. Håkon of Norway went berserk and almost killed Duke Erik of Sweden in a fury due to the peace-terms the duke proposed. I'm surprised Erik managed to run away, considering the size of his balls! It's fascinating just how powerful Swedish nobles were compared to kings, almost as if it's a unique Swedish characteristic.

Was there such a thing as a strong Swedish king during the high middle age?

~Wille

[Aguirre]

I made a Birkebeiner unit for the Swedes for a personal submod. Would be to be able to insert them in the Mercenary slot in Sweden

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Athos187]

I made a Birkebeiner unit for the Swedes for a personal submod. Would be to be able to insert them in the Mercenary slot in Sweden

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cool looking unit man!

[Aguirre]

Cool looking unit man!

Thanks. Apart from the actual birch greaves its all MKTW stuff. To browse through their stuff is simply mindblowing

[You_Guess_Who]

I made a Birkebeiner unit for the Swedes for a personal submod. Would be to be able to insert them in the Mercenary slot in Sweden

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mmmm, can I have some historical background for this unit?

[blackfang12]

I've been binge reading the Scandi-wars of 1280-1320 for a while now, such as biographies of Jarl Alv Erlingsson and King Haakon the 5th of Norway. It's like Game of Thrones on steroids, unbelievably fascinating. Non-stop action and war. To top that off, if I had a nickle for every time someone broke an oath and turned their back on friends, I would be the richest man on earth. One thing I noticed was how the king of Sweden (Birger) was a complete tool for just about anyone sitting on a horse. I've heard the same words about medieval Swedish monarchs in general by other historians.

Weak king, strong nobles. One relevant example was Duke Erik of Sweden: he carved his own recognized kingdom in the center of Scandinavia, fought against all the Scandinavian kings simultaneously and came out as a legend. I remember one diplomatic incident in Bohuslen between the king Norway and the Swedish duke, it was basically peace talks and Haakon had the upper hand at this point. The peace talks ended abruptly. Håkon of Norway went berserk and almost killed Duke Erik of Sweden in a fury due to the peace-terms the duke proposed. I'm surprised Erik managed to run away, considering the size of his balls! It's fascinating just how powerful Swedish nobles were compared to kings, almost as if it's a unique Swedish characteristic.

Was there such a thing as a strong Swedish king during the high middle age?

~Wille

Hard to say, until the late 13th-early 14th centuries when the Folkunga dynasty took over from the feuding Eriks and Sverkers, and began to turn Sweden into more of a continental style feudal state, the basic "lord" was the Jarl, who was an official whose official role was to manage the kings lands and property whilst the king was away (With the Riksjarl serving as basically a prime minister), however, at the same time the various regions of Sweden had their own Things, which established local laws by public voting and acted as courts to settle disputes, and had their own Lawspeakers whose role it was to memorize all these local laws. With the Jarl and King likely serving as arbitrators/judges with the aid of the Lawspeaker, as well as collecting taxes and organizing the armies.

[Ygraine]

Looking forward to playing a fleshed out Swedish Kingdom! Keep up the awesome work!