Iraq looks too arid! It's not a desert. More greenery, please

[Lifthrasir]

Damned, MWY you're impressive. That was fast and it looks great
I guess that it's not possible to represent the Great Swamp in another manner than you did with that climate, right?

[bigdaddy1204]

MWY, you are a hero of Total War! I'm really grateful that you have taken the time to work on this.

What do you think, Lifthrasir? I'm pretty happy with this new map. It's a massive improvement on the original and gives us a big step forward. MWY has once again done a great job. I can even describe it as beautiful.

Today I have been looking at the maps again and got a new appreciation of how hard mapping can be (especially when historical rivers and coastlines keep moving!)

Big question for me now is - how do we use this map? I'm excited to begin a campaign!

[Melooo182]

Today I have been looking at the maps again and got a new appreciation of how hard mapping can be (especially when historical rivers and coastlines keep moving!)

Indeed is not that easy

BTW this reminds me of another anachronistic part of the map, the netherlands area
I found some useful maps when I was doing research for Titanium
I can point you where to ger them if interested

[k/t]

Yes, greater accuracy is always good.

[Lifthrasir]

Indeed is not that easy

BTW this reminds me of another anachronistic part of the map, the netherlands area
I found some useful maps when I was doing research for Titanium
I can point you where to ger them if interested

Yes, I know that. Actually, a lot of the coasts of the North Sea changed after the Saint Lucia Storm in 1287 AD: Netherlands, West coast of Denmark and probably some in Northern Germany as well.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Another mistake on the map is the Nile delta:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

However, I had a map showing it during the 5th crusade but I have to look through my archives

Anyway, any sources are welcome to help us to improve. Many thanks for your offer, Melooo182

[k/t]

You're project leader now? What happened to Fair Prince?

[Melooo182]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuiderzee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almere_(lake)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Sa...7_Flood_(1170)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Lucia%27s_flood
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ds/XVqs59MiwhA

[Lifthrasir]

Many thanks Melooo182. I'll check that carefully

@ k/t, yes I've been promoted last year
Actually, Fair Prince stepped down due to real life priorities. Before he left and with the agreement of the the other team members at that time, it has been decided to give me that position. Since, I'm doing my best to keep developing SSHIP with the same spirit

[La Tene]

Read through this entire thread, nearly. I want to run an eastern faction now, big time.

[Lifthrasir]

Just in addition to the post from Melooo182, here is a map for the Northen part of Friesland :

Geography of southern Denmark and northern Germany, showing (left) the coastal outline in 1240 AD, and (right) the outline in 1651 AD, both maps compiled by Johannes Mejerus. The green area shows the modern outline of land. The red arrow shows the location of the island Nordstrand. Each map covers about 95 km from west to east. Map source: Pedersen (1977).

Regarding the Southern part of that coastline (Flanders), no major changes during the game period (12th to 16th centuries). The only detail I've nopticed is that there was quite a big lake behind Dunkirk and up to the actual Belgian border. But I'm not sure it's worth to show it on the map.

[bigdaddy1204]

Read through this entire thread, nearly. I want to run an eastern faction now, big time.

Ha ha, me too!

I only just realised that presumably these map changes will appear in the next release/patch? of SSHIP.
Whenever that is, I'm looking forward to it.

A minor note on that topic - I'd like to see the unrest reduced a bit. Some captured cities are ungovernable!
Yes it's nice to have to deal with public order, but we need balance! A town that has just been exterminated shouldn't be able to rebel a few turns later despite being garrisoned by a full stack army... (that happened to me)

[Dekhatres]

Ha ha, me too!

I only just realised that presumably these map changes will appear in the next release/patch? of SSHIP.
Whenever that is, I'm looking forward to it.

A minor note on that topic - I'd like to see the unrest reduced a bit. Some captured cities are ungovernable!
Yes it's nice to have to deal with public order, but we need balance! A town that has just been exterminated shouldn't be able to rebel a few turns later despite being garrisoned by a full stack army... (that happened to me)

imo unrest should stay as it is but give bigger bonuses to public order buildings or bring back free upkeep on some units (or both), with the current unrest rate you cant afford to conquer everything and expand everywhere, and this is where vassals come in handy, though i think allies and vassals are not viable right now with the new campaign AI, you can always use the old Lusted AI

because of unrest a solid base on wich to build your empire is also required, you cant start up your empire in a barren place, areas with many settlements are required, as an example playing with seljuks i found out that i had to move to the holy lands and make it the core of my empire, then i can control my old and far settlements through vassals

now about free upkeep units Lifthrasir said soldiers cost money always at any time and that's true, however militias are not full time soldiers, even when you click on your city and you see them they are basically not there, they are somewhere working in the fields or at the market or whatever and there's no diference between them and normal citizens, when the city is under attack they run back at home, arm themselves and bolster the garrison, so i think is wrong for them to have upkeep, for feudal units i think recruitment cost should be 0 and upkeep active at all times, since you give lands away to these feudal lords all the income from those lands now goes to them so the upkeep makes sense, the recruitment cost however dosent

and one thing i forgot, keep an eye on enemy spies, if public order drops that dramatically it's very likely because of an enemy spy

[Lifthrasir]

(...) now about free upkeep units Lifthrasir said soldiers cost money always at any time and that's true, however militias are not full time soldiers, even when you click on your city and you see them they are basically not there, they are somewhere working in the fields or at the market or whatever and there's no diference between them and normal citizens, when the city is under attack they run back at home, arm themselves and bolster the garrison, so i think is wrong for them to have upkeep, for feudal units i think recruitment cost should be 0 and upkeep active at all times, since you give lands away to these feudal lords all the income from those lands now goes to them so the upkeep makes sense, the recruitment cost however dosent(...)

It's quite difficult to represent that unfortunately. I'm still convinced that we should balance the unrest due to Capital distance with a culture penalty. Also, regarding the free upkeep, it's really too advantageous for the human player. The solution might be a garrison script that would allow both, human and AI, to have a few minor units spawing in the besieged settlement to represent the call for all available men to fight for their kingdom, and then to disband these units automatically. But I think it has to be adjusted in the right way (number of units, type, etc...) to not unbalance the gameplay as well.

[Dekhatres]

It's quite difficult to represent that unfortunately. I'm still convinced that we should balance the unrest due to Capital distance with a culture penalty. Also, regarding the free upkeep, it's really too advantageous for the human player. The solution might be a garrison script that would allow both, human and AI, to have a few minor units spawing in the besieged settlement to represent the call for all available men to fight for their kingdom, and then to disband these units automatically. But I think it has to be adjusted in the right way (number of units, type, etc...) to not unbalance the gameplay as well.

wouldnt the AI bonuses even the situation ? sure players might be advantaged with free upkeep but AI also has huge bonuses, like fielding several stacks with 1 settlement even if not as sever as in 6.4, as seljuks (just to make an example) i couldnt field more armies than abbasids who is a faction about 3 times smaller and they actually invaded me

i am still convinced that settlements far away should only be controlable through vassals, your solutions might work just as well, i think it's just way more intresting with vassals, more factions, very politics, much game of thrones

or maybe lots of new types of roads could be added and they would decrease distance to capital penalty, or if they cant do that then just simply increase public order, yea it might sound ridiculous for roads to increase public order but when looking at the big picture it actually makes sense

[Lifthrasir]

MWY has adjusted the distance to capital penalty for the next release. Hopefully, it should be better.
I think it was in SS6.2 where they used also the religion conversion with the unrest. As CS, you needed to reach a certain level of conversion in Muslim teritories to lower down the unrest due to the difference of religion. The best way would be to do that but with culture. However, I'm not sure how it can be done efficently. May be a building system like in some Rome mods, allowing the recruitment of some AOR units could help by reflecting an assimilation fact

Another solution to decrease the unrest for far away settlements could be a script allowing the player to give a certain level of autonomy to these regions.The good point would be the increase of the public order but the bad point could be less income and/or increase the risk of bribing by another faction

I think if we can make a mix of these 2 ideas, the result should bring the player in a better immersion.

[GenPatton]

man... how can you think vassals are such a great thing?

you cant afford to conquer everything and expand everywhere, and this is where vassals come in handy

i am still convinced that settlements far away should only be controlable through vassals

You sound like your saying one controls settlements that belong to one's vassals? What? You not in controll of anything, you think it's the same thing as owning the settlement yourself? Looking at vassals like that is .
In my opinion, because of how the AI works vassals are only good to have that certain faction stop attacking you even after being reduced to 1 or 2 settlements and even so, if your reputation is low then they won't respect it for long.

[MWY]

Yes they will because vassals can't invade anything.

[GenPatton]

I have been betrayed by vassals in vanilla and SS, you saying that doesn't happen in this mod?

[Dekhatres]

man... how can you think vassals are such a great thing?




You sound like your saying one controls settlements that belong to one's vassals? What? You not in controll of anything, you think it's the same thing as owning the settlement yourself? Looking at vassals like that is .
In my opinion, because of how the AI works vassals are only good to have that certain faction stop attacking you even after being reduced to 1 or 2 settlements and even so, if your reputation is low then they won't respect it for long.

yes vassals are a great thing, historically big empires had lots of them

if you have 20 settlements and you make a faction with 2 settlements vassal you will now own 22 settlements, vassals pay tributes to you and in battle you can control their units as if they were your own, you also have military acces on their lands, you dont control building or anything like that but you also dont pay for their garrisons

"you think it's the same thing as owning the settlement yourself?" yes i think that, cause i started playing med2 yesterday

[bigdaddy1204]

Hey guys, just came across this. The Dominion of the Sword mod released a few screens of the Iraq area. Just thought I'd share as a useful comparison. Personally, I think MWY's map is much better

Isn't it strange how there are so many settlements? They seem to have used forts and turned them into towns somehow. I have no idea what they were trying to achieve but seems like it never came to anything.