Iraq looks too arid! It's not a desert. More greenery, please

[Lifthrasir]

They have added a huge amount of PSF's to oblige the player to do some kind of "micro_management" of his realm. They aren't towns. They just used a town stratmap model for the PSF's.
Actually, the mod is still in development and they're supposed to release an alpha version soon.

Without considering the textures (because it depends on the tasts of each of us), my main "critic" would be that the coasts and rivers steams look too "squarry".

[Dekhatres]

yep i too think MWY's map is better, lots of forts have the potential to make conquering a faction a very slow and rewarding challenge

[bigdaddy1204]

Wow, I didn’t realise they still plan to launch.

To be fair, their map does have some things better than ours:

1). In the first picture, look at the area to the north and east of Basra, there is a river that leads from Basra north up to Ahvaz. They have greenery and trees over that whole section.

2). There is no desert area between the Zagros mountains and the Persian Gulf.

I’ve spent a lot of time looking again carefully at the maps and I noticed that there are indeed important fertile river valleys that run right through Khuzestan, from the Zagros to the coast.

There are also areas where our map is better than theirs, but where both maps are actually a bit wrong.

3). There are a couple of large lakes – the Hawizeh marshes and the Shadegan Wildlife Refuge that aren’t shown on either map, but which are very important




So basically the main difference to make our map better would be to include the two arcs of river and lake running north of Basra, consisting of the lush greenery and scenic river route running north east from Basra up to Ahvaz and thence up to the Zagros; and secondly the belt of green running north west up to the Hawizeh marshes and up to the mountains.

Of course, I'm being annoying asking for more changes now, but I think it does make our map more perfect (and better than theirs).

[bigdaddy1204]

I've taken a screenshot of the main areas affected, as a guide, and coloured them in to illustrate what I mean. I also think the mountains themselves need to be greened up a bit - the Zagros in this area is very lush and green, as can be seen in photos of the area. Hope this helps!



Key:

1). the red area (right) is a river valley

2). The left red circle and green striped area is the larger Hawizeh marsh and the green corridor to the north of it.

3). the green stripes to the north of the black line (near the Zagros) represent the Khuzestan landscape, which looks like this:

Gotvand, Khuzestan, Iran, February 2006

(this photo was taken in that green striped area)

[Lifthrasir]

So basically for the lakes, you want something like this (even if that map is much earlier than our game time):

[bigdaddy1204]

So basically for the lakes, you want something like this (even if that map is much earlier than our game time):

Well in this map Basra is under the sea! (as the coast has moved)

But yes it shows the important Karun river north-east of Basra (an area which is currently sand desert on our map.)

The most important thing for me is to show the Karun river valley, which I have marked in red on my map above. A single river in between the two red lines, with a bit of green (similar to what MWY has already done) would be fine.

[k/t]

That map is from the 6th century BC?

Lifthrasir, is your picture from a MTG card?

[Lifthrasir]

I honestly don't know and yes I know its date. I just found it on the web but unfortunately, I don't speak German but MWY does.
But at least it shows the rivers and the lakes.

[bigdaddy1204]

I honestly don't know and yes I know its date. I just found it on the web but unfortunately, I don't speak German but MWY does.
But at least it shows the rivers and the lakes.

Yes its a nice map, thanks for sharing. I found it interesting looking at Ga Farabad and Coga Mis (bottom right), its nice to see some fertile lands there

[bigdaddy1204]

Hey, you guys. Just found this article and thought I'd share it, just because it's interesting.

It talks about the Saddam dictatorship and ISIS. Notably, Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist reigme drained significant parts of Iraq's marshes in March 1991, as means of punishing the Shia population who were trying to rebel against him. Also talks about how we in the west imagine Iraq as a desert (wrongly, as it turns out).

https://www.the-newshub.com/environm...otamia-marshes

"It's depressing to think that such lush wetlands which are the very antithesis to what some outsiders foolishly view Iraq as (hence constituting little more than a desert country, a flawed perception not helped by the various American military operation names against the Iraqi regime throughout the 1990s) were so devastated they were at risk of becoming what would amount to little more than a barren arid desert. Indeed the drainage caused 7,500 square miles of Iraqi territory to succumb to desertification."

[Melooo182]

I've been working on improving this same area for Titanium too and IMO would be kinda pointless to open another thread for this, even if another submod.
(I extensively modified the textures though hehe)

Spoiler for Titanium's mesopotamia: 

Overdid/too much green?

[bigdaddy1204]

I've been working on improving this same area for Titanium too and IMO would be kinda pointless to open another thread for this, even if another submod.
(I extensively modified the textures though hehe)

Spoiler for Titanium's mesopotamia: 

Overdid/too much green?

Interesting. I think this goes a bit too far!
That said, it does have some good points, so I'll break it down into what I liked and what I didn't.

Positive
1). Good job showing the river going from Basra up towards the mountains. This is important and well implemented.
2). Nice to see the actual mountains now have green slopes all the way along. This is a good improvement.
3). It's great that the sand desert has been removed from the areas south of the Zagros mountains. That area is mostly farmland today.

Negative
1). It's a bit too green! I think the green spotted area south of the Euphrates river extends a bit too far. Especially as you have it extending far to the south of the lakes. I think I would prefer the greenery to end not far beyond the lakes as you go south/southwest.
2). Iraq is not the Amazon rainforest! While it's good to see the fertile areas green, there does need to be some clue that Iraq is a hot country. Possibly the colour of greenery shown is a bit overdone
3). You could possibly have a little bit more lush green just along the bottom of the Zagros mountains. That area is some of the greenest in Iraq, full of waterfalls and forests. I don't mean carpet bomb the entire area, but a green area running along the edge would be nice. In my earlier posts when I showed photos of lush greenery, I was referring to the area immediately south of the Zagros, between it and the rivers/Persian Gulf


Here is a photograph of the Iraq landscape, showing northern Iraq (which is the more hilly part).

[Lifthrasir]

No problem Melooo182, feel free to use this thread if you need to. We have nothing against sharing our sources
... and we're glad if we can help you for Titanium

[bigdaddy1204]

I tried getting Titanium to work once but I don't think I could get it to launch.

@Lifthrasir will the next version of SSHIP come as an update or as a standalone?

[Lifthrasir]

It would probably be a new "full version" as there are numerous changes.

[Melooo182]

Thanks Lifth

Negative
1). It's a bit too green! I think the green spotted area south of the Euphrates river extends a bit too far. Especially as you have it extending far to the south of the lakes. I think I would prefer the greenery to end not far beyond the lakes as you go south/southwest.
2). Iraq is not the Amazon rainforest! While it's good to see the fertile areas green, there does need to be some clue that Iraq is a hot country. Possibly the colour of greenery shown is a bit overdone
3). You could possibly have a little bit more lush green just along the bottom of the Zagros mountains. That area is some of the greenest in Iraq, full of waterfalls and forests. I don't mean carpet bomb the entire area, but a green area running along the edge would be nice. In my earlier posts when I showed photos of lush greenery, I was referring to the area immediately south of the Zagros, between it and the rivers/Persian Gulf

Update with your suggestions

Spoiler for image: 

BTW those photographs look really beautiful I think i have to add some yellowish/orange hue in the semiarid grass

[bigdaddy1204]

Update with your suggestions

This is much better, well done.

BTW those photographs look really beautiful I think i have to add some yellowish/orange hue in the semiarid grass

Yes, that would be a great idea. I like the extent of your greenery. The next step is simply to do exactly what you've said here.

Also, I thought the quote below was cool and interesting. It basically supports what Melooo182 has already done.

"Some areas, however, although arid, do have natural vegetation. For example, in the Zagros Mountains in northeastern Iraq there is permanent vegetation, such as oak trees, and date palms are found in the south. An Alluvial plain begins north of Baghdad and extends to the Persian Gulf. Here the Tigris and Euphrates rivers lie above the level of the plain in many places, and the whole area is a river delta interlaced by the channels of the two rivers and by irrigation canals."

This quote suggests that you have basically got it right. It's just a game of colours now!

Good work Melooo182

[Cookiegod]

StSt without Submod has from my point of view always had the worst campaign map possible. There are so many things wrong there. It's a good thing you correct some of the mistakes here

On the riverbanks, the area should always be fertile.

[bigdaddy1204]

StSt without Submod has from my point of view always had the worst campaign map possible. There are so many things wrong there. It's a good thing you correct some of the mistakes here

On the riverbanks, the area should always be fertile.

Really? What do you mean? Are there other areas that we have missed?

[Melooo182]

All European mayor rivers are kinda misplaced in SS6.4, You can even see in the Height map were some of the rivers should actually be.
So I aligned an Hydro-graphic map with SS's one to get the rivers placed correctly in Titanium.

Also fixed Netherlands and North Frisia coastlines, even took the trouble of smoothing them, if you guys want the Height map file to copy over the parts or have a base to work with, just send me a PM

I Also saw that Lift posted something about the Nile Delta but couldn't really see what needed to be changed.