Chaos Warriors Race IS pre-order DLC

[scoicarius]

They will be in the game files, you won't be able to play with them in campaign and multiplayer. you can still fight against them in your campaign.

I don't want to play against them, I want to play with them, because they're one of my favorite Warhammer factions.

Here's how I see it. They told us the game is going to have four factions when it will have five (so the time did allow them to make more than four). Deception right off the bat. Then they tell us we get the fifth faction (and one of the most iconic Warhammer factions at that) "for free" on condition we pay them in advance. This is manipulation pure and simple. It's not about money, because, as some pointed out, you can get a Steam refund if the game tanks at launch. It's about respect and trust, which can't be built on manipulation.

[ScipioGermanicus]

If they want money, then just make the dlc available for purchase after release and not a pre-release bonus. That way they would make even more money (game+dlc) if the product happened to be actually good. This is just a way of avoiding a loss of sales due to early, serious reviews.


I'd consider Skaven or Bretonnia as pre-order bonuses as awful as this.

The question is not just to have money, but the time you getting it.
Games are investments overs years. They cost and cot and barley bring in a dime.
Is it really that horrible for someone to want some of it a bit earlier?
Do you work 1-3 years and only get paid at the end of it? Probably not.

I don't want to play against them, I want to play with them, because they're one of my favorite Warhammer factions.

Here's how I see it. They told us the game is going to have four factions when it will have five (so the time did allow them to make more than four). Deception right off the bat.

So we are "deceive" because why? They told us 4 playable races. That is what we get and will get no matter when we purchase it.
That does not get compromise by the existing of other contend.

If some sells fries and you buy some and a other person buys fires and pays extra for ketchup, do you have less fires? No.

Then they tell us we get the fifth faction (and one of the most iconic Warhammer factions at that) "for free" on condition we pay them in advance.

If you would present a bonus of any kind for a purchasing a product would it be a good or a bad or irrelevant bonus?

This is manipulation pure and simple.

No it is the basic of trade, pure and simple.
Side A tries to convince side B to take they offer in favourable conditions for them by making attractive conditions for it.
CA wants you to buy the game early, because that is good for them and hence they give you intensives to do so.
How this is supposedly "deceiving" and "manipulation" is beyond me.
That would only be the case if they say you can play as chaos warriors, but you couldn't or if the made it sound that deamons of chaos will be integrated into chaos warriors but then they aren't.
THAT would be manipulation.
The rest is just standard trading as anyone, including the people complaining about this, does.

It's not about money, because, as some pointed out, you can get a Steam refund if the game tanks at launch. It's about respect and trust, which can't be built on manipulation.

We can't build it on entitlement and paranoia...

[Tankbustaz]

I don't want to play against them, I want to play with them, because they're one of my favorite Warhammer factions.

well if that is the case you have to buy them. much like the viking 4fathers dlc.
people who wanted it had to roll the dice with CA or pay for it separately

Here's how I see it. They told us the game is going to have four factions when it will have five (so the time did allow them to make more than four). Deception right off the bat. Then they tell us we get the fifth faction (and one of the most iconic Warhammer factions at that) "for free" on condition we pay them in advance. This is manipulation pure and simple. It's not about money, because, as some pointed out, you can get a Steam refund if the game tanks at launch. It's about respect and trust, which can't be built on manipulation.

the trailer for warhammer showed a lord of change, it was obvious from the start that chaos would be in the game as a faction.
I still doubt that this is the FLC they were talking about. they are probably gonna have bretonnia or kislev as FreeLC because they are not as popular as chaos.

[Abdülmecid I]

A pre-order DLC is not free, regardless of how much the concept of freedom can be distorted, because it limits your choice, basically forcing you to sacrifice one of your "rights" as a customer, in order to enjoy something that should or not (but in this case, probably should) be part of the main product. Anyway, can't say I'm surprised, it was pretty obvious that Chaos would succeed the Spartans and the Vikings, because the rest of the factions wasn't juicy enough for a pre-order DLC. Artistically, can't say I really liked the video, a strategy game should focus on massive battles, not on individuals, not to mention that I had already watched it, if you shorten the Imperial and replace that scorpion-like guy with goblin spidery.

[Faith]

at least they've got a good sense of humour.

[ayylmango]

Pre-ordering is what is classically called "investing", however you receive no benefit at all from it, no return of any kind, as regular investors do. In fact you are punished for this early investment, because you don't get the product for cheaper. Enjoy destroying the games industry, you drones who pre-order.

[ScipioGermanicus]

Pre-ordering is what is classically called "investing", however you receive no benefit at all from it, no return of any kind, as regular investors do. In fact you are punished for this early investment, because you don't get the product for cheaper. Enjoy destroying the games industry, you drones who pre-order.

Well our heroic saviour of the game industry, who bless us "drones" with your wisdom, you may want to reconsider the factually of your statement
Getting a DlC for free, that others will have to pay for, is a reward.

PS: I probably not pre ordering.

[Charerg]

well if that is the case you have to buy them. much like the viking 4fathers dlc.
people who wanted it had to roll the dice with CA or pay for it separately

the trailer for warhammer showed a lord of change, it was obvious from the start that chaos would be in the game as a faction.
I still doubt that this is the FLC they were talking about. they are probably gonna have bretonnia or kislev as FreeLC because they are not as popular as chaos.

Yes it was obvious Chaos was going to be a faction, but not necessarily a playable faction. Also, it's not the same as with the Viking DLC. With Attila, you still had access to the Saxons if you wanted to play a "Norse" faction, who had largely the same units and playstyle. This would be comparable to making Chaos a race, then making the Khornate faction a Pre-order bonus DLC.

Now, they are pure and simple cutting off 20% of the game and making it available only to those who pre-order (or pay perhaps 10-15€ for the faction). This kind of business practice really doesn't inspire trust in me as a consumer.

[HigoChumbo]

The question is not just to have money, but the time you getting it.
Games are investments overs years. They cost and cot and barley bring in a dime.
Is it really that horrible for someone to want some of it a bit earlier?
Do you work 1-3 years and only get paid at the end of it? Probably not.

I don't think CA/SEGA go conveniently bankrupt 6 months ahead of every release. I don't think their employees are living on the lunchboxes their grandmas send them every weekend. I don't think making a major race a pre-order bonus is the only way they have to create income (specially not in Warhammer when they have a miriad of choices to do so, from adding units, to skins, to heroes, to whatnot).

This is in my opinion not a strictly monetary issue, but a lack of confidence in their own product.

If some sells fries and you buy some and a other person buys fires and pays extra for ketchup, do you have less fires? No.

That's not a valid comparison. You don't pre-order fries 6 months in advance, risking to get some stale junk just because of the promise of getting ketchup for free if you do. That would be a lame thing to do, wouldn't it?

[Tankbustaz]

Yes it was obvious Chaos was going to be a faction, but not necessarily a playable faction. Also, it's not the same as with the Viking DLC. With Attila, you still had access to the Saxons if you wanted to play a "Norse" faction, who had largely the same units and playstyle. This would be comparable to making Chaos a race, then making the Khornate faction a Pre-order bonus DLC.

Now, they are pure and simple cutting off 20% of the game and making it available only to those who pre-order (or pay perhaps 10-15€ for the faction). This kind of business practice really doesn't inspire trust in me as a consumer.

so if you don't preorder and don't buy the game, you lose nothing. you still get to fight chaos in your game, you just can't play as them. I have no interest in a chaos faction, so I am not going to buy it outright or pre order. I lose nothing by not pre ordering.

I don't think CA/SEGA go conveniently bankrupt 6 months ahead of every release. I don't think their employees are living on the lunchboxes their grandmas send them every weekend. I don't think making a major race a pre-order bonus is the only way they have to create income (specially not in Warhammer when they have a miriad of choices to do so, from adding units, to skins, to heroes, to whatnot).

This is in my opinion not a strictly monetary issue, but a lack of confidence in their own product.




That's not a valid comparison. You don't pre-order fries 6 months in advance, risking to get some stale junk just because of the promise of getting ketchup for free if you do. That would be a lame thing to do, wouldn't it?

man, food analogies are terrible

[Tankbustaz]

disregard

[LionElJonson]

Well this is one way to put a bad taste in my mouth after having been really excited for TW:WH.

The game is 7 (7!!!) months away from release and you decide its a good idea to announce pre-order DLC? Not only that but the pre-order DLC in question is one of the main factions of the setting?

First of all you can't even hide the fact that you're cutting out a piece of the game to sell it to us again.

Second of all you still have factions that are meant to be in the base game (Orcs and Vampire Counts) that you've barely talked about.

Now while I don't condone DLC, pre-order DLC or anything of the kind I still understand why its done from a business perspective. That being said whomever thought it was a good idea to release this piece of news at this point in time really needs to get their head checked.

The only positive thing about this is that we got a release date. God damn, I'm not even angry, just incredibily disappointed.

[scoicarius]

The rest is just standard trading as anyone, including the people complaining about this, does.

This is an instance of artificial scarcity, that is, making something artificially scarce so that you can charge more for it. I HATE this practice, and I consider it inherently manipulative. The fact that it's so widespread makes it all the more despicable in my eyes.

[ScipioGermanicus]

I don't think CA/SEGA go conveniently bankrupt 6 months ahead of every release. I don't think their employees are living on the lunchboxes their grandmas send them every weekend. I don't think making a major race a pre-order bonus is the only way they have to create income (specially not in Warhammer when they have a miriad of choices to do so, from adding units, to skins, to heroes, to whatnot).

First: Sega not being bankrupt doesn't change that you would want money, that you investment to make money, back early yourself. Why demand of sega what you wouldn't do?
Second: are suggestion that instead of giving us a additional full race, they should have cripple the other races and then make them complete? Because somewhere those additional units/heroes/whatnot come from. How is that better as suppose giving a additional race?

This is in my opinion not a strictly monetary issue, but a lack of confidence in their own product.

And in my opinion, you have no clue, but a lot of judgement for the work of others.
I would love to see people like you in they work environment and how selfless you act in it.

That's not a valid comparison. You don't pre-order fries 6 months in advance, risking to get some stale junk just because of the promise of getting ketchup for free if you do. That would be a lame thing to do, wouldn't it?

That was about the nature of DLC/additional contend in general.


But of course it is easier to make a absurd complain, then actually progress the argument.

[ScipioGermanicus]

This is an instance of artificial scarcity, that is, making something artificially scarce so that you can charge more for it. I HATE this practice, and I consider it inherently manipulative. The fact that it's so widespread makes it all the more despicable in my eyes.

Mhhh... so do you consider extra ketchup also "artificial scarcity"(which btw, works a bit differently than what this is but details), a different colour for a car or radio?
And you can hate the stars and the moon for what I care that doesn't make the make "inherently manipulative".

[azgard]

Season for milking players officially begun!

In the link concept map for the upcoming game:
https://i.imgur.com/G9qE8u1.jpg

After a PC Gamer:
"The game will feature four playable core races (Orks, Dwarfs, Empire, Undead) but a fifth—Chaos Warriors—will be available in Total War: Warhammer's first "race pack" DLC release"
link for news:
http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-war...haos-warriors/

I looked on it... i read it carefully... i tried to grasp the vast lore of Warhammer in my mind, and came to one simple conclusion: behold the ultimate milking machine, the terror that is Total War Warhammer.

According to developers You start in Empire as a Reikland, so get ready for: Ostland DLC, Hochland DLC, Nordland DLC, Middenland DLC, Ostermark DLC, Talabecland DLC, Stirland DLC, Averland DLC, Wissenland DLC. From the bigger ones You always can buy the new and only Bretonia DLC, Wood Elfs DLC, Goblins DLC, Skaven DLC, Chaos Dwarves DLC, Kislev DLC i bet there gone be some unorthodox DLC's like Border Brinces DLC and Tilea DLC. But this is not all, i bet all my money we gone see some great unit pack! Just now, for limited period of time You have a opportunity to enhance Your army, buy Karak-Kadrin Slayers Unit Pack, buy Sartosa Pirates Unit Pack for Tilea, buy High Elf expedition force, buy Khorne warriors, Nurgle followers, Slanesh favoured... I just make fun of it, but tbh, do any one thinks that game gone have only 4 races to play? Nope, they gone sell rest of them as a DLC, and they gone try to squeeze from players as much as they can.

I loved Total War games, i loved WFB, but first and second are just a shadows of their former glory, and combined spit out the worst from both.

[Charerg]

Frankly I'm more surprised that there are actually people who apparently accept cutting off 20% of the game as Pre-order DLC as "business as usual" and even defend the practice than I am about the fact that CA continues the practice!

This is pretty much as bad as it gets in terms of screwing up the consumer via pre-order DLC (which imo shouldn't even exist, because this is essentially content cut from the base game). But since there's apparently a market of people who are just asking for their money to be taken, then I can certainly understand why this practice seems to get worse and worse from one Total War title to the next.

[Caius Bingerus]

after this announcement, i really have to think of buying anything again from ya CA, i had not purchased Attila for the same reason, since Rome 2 was a clear lie on customers, i love warhammer, but ya really destroyed it again, sadly...if ya would be honest CA guys and girls to yourself, ya know this smells like ...this is no way an offer, this is robbing...

[Carach]

Anyone that didn't see this coming hasn't been paying attention over the last two years.

Hopefully no one is silly enough to pre-order...oh why do I bother.

two? CA have been rotting a lot longer than 2 years.

[ayylmango]

Frankly I'm more surprised that there are actually people who apparently accept cutting off 20% of the game as Pre-order DLC as "business as usual" and even defend the practice than I am about the fact that CA continues the practice!

This is pretty much as bad as it gets in terms of screwing up the consumer via pre-order DLC (which imo shouldn't even exist, because this is essentially content cut from the base game). But since there's apparently a market of people who are just asking for their money to be taken, then I can certainly understand why this practice seems to get worse and worse from one Total War title to the next.

They're young people and they missed out on the era of gaming when this sort of disgusting practice wasn't commonplace.