SSHIP ver. 0.98 - April 25th, 2024 - DOWNLOAD HERE

[kostic]

Is there a possibility that a mini patch could be released sometime soon to fix some of the more glaring bugs?

Namely:
1. Light Men at Arms being available from the start in france
2. Archers inexplicably disappearing when heavy mail is discovered
3. The hungarian saxon event firing for every faction on turn 13

If not a mini patch, where would I be able to fix them myself? At the very least the first two.

Thank you for these reports!
These points may be corrected in the next version. These are basically areas for our director @Jurand of Cracow
Most concern the EDB file

[Jurand of Cracow]

Is there a possibility that a mini patch could be released sometime soon to fix some of the more glaring bugs?
Namely:
1. Light Men at Arms being available from the start in france
2. Archers inexplicably disappearing when heavy mail is discovered
3. The hungarian saxon event firing for every faction on turn 13
If not a mini patch, where would I be able to fix them myself? At the very least the first two.

Yep, 2 and 3 will be fixed. The LMaA - I'm not sure how to deal with it. If you disable it, many factions will have no access to swordsmen. I expect complaints "why don't my lvl3 barracks provide swordsmen". One decision has usually a few foreseen consequences, and unknown number of unforeseen...

[kostic]

The LMaA - I'm not sure how to deal with it. If you disable it, many factions will have no access to swordsmen. I expect complaints "why don't my lvl3 barracks provide swordsmen". One decision has usually a few foreseen consequences, and unknown number of unforeseen...

If you think these factions (aragon, france, england, jerusalem) should get swordsman units from the start, I have maybe 2 ideas:
1- I am redoing the unit in question so that it is more adapted to the era
2- I give these factions the possibility of recruiting the "Light swordsmen" unit in the EDU (with the appropriate textures) which can subsequently be replaced by the "Light men at arms" in the last section of the 12th century or in the first half of the 13th century...

[Jurand of Cracow]

If you think these factions (aragon, france, england, jerusalem) should get swordsman units from the start, I have maybe 2 ideas:
1- I am redoing the unit in question so that it is more adapted to the era
2- I give these factions the possibility of recruiting the "Light swordsmen" unit in the EDU (with the appropriate textures) which can subsequently be replaced by the "Light men at arms" in the last section of the 12th century or in the first half of the 13th century...

I'm very much in favour of the (2) !
If you'd do it, I'd introduce it into the EDB according to the @Katrina of Catarina's wishes - France would have access to the swordsmen in 12th century.

[Katrina of Catarina]

Light swordsmen being the more universal unit until the LMaA are supposed to be available.
I do hope the changes will be released soon! SSHIP has been an addiction of mine for a long time, and spoils basically all other mods.
The LMaA issue and the disappearing archers issue are the only two things preventing me from fully enjoying the mod currently!

[kostic]

Done this morning ! Here are the light swordsmen added for the Aragonese, the French, the English and the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
Here a test with the English light swordsmen

[j.a.luna]

Done this morning ! Here are the light swordsmen added for the Aragonese, the French, the English and the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
Here a test with the English light swordsmen

yeah kostic! fabulous! But one question, why are they only available for those European factions? and not also for Castilians, Germans, Italians, Poles...

[kostic]

yeah kostic! fabulous! But one question, why are they only available for those European factions? and not also for Castilians, Germans, Italians, Poles...

They already are! Only these 4 factions did not have them.

[Gaku]

433 turns into a campaign, and I am again calling it quits out of frustration. 46 regions controlled out of the necessary 40; all I needed to do was take Jerusalem and win. But like an idiot I decided to "play the game" and not go for the win, and so it ends like the rest. What I've meticulously clawed and scraped together over hundreds of years of careful diplomacy and unrest management falls apart because the "mercenaries need payment" from one turn to the next, as global plague that hasn't even yet afflicted the entire nation and hasn't yet reached the capital swings the nation's income by at least 100,000 florins (I don't know the exact number, but going from "embezzlement" + 30,000f before to -50,000f after is a very large swing). Once the plague ravages its way through, this will probably increase to around 200,000 florins.

Is it possible to overcome it and recover? Sure. I could save scum my way to victory. I could delete exactly the right number of units and buildings in exactly the right places to make sure I don't lose anything significant and can still fight the wars I'm currently fighting, while preempting the opportunists on my borders, and to make sure long dead nations don't suddenly pop up in the middle of my nation (as they did when I pressed next turn), but I don't want to. I'm done. The rule was "no reloading for any reason" and I already broke that rule just to see if it was possible to avert catastrophe. So here's where it ends - 1 turn before the mercenaries need payment and 2 turns before the collapse.

Here's what I would conclude from my experiences.

1. Unrest in large settlements is way too high.

1a. Why do "wall" improvements have a static -30 order penalty? Shouldn't this be reduced for larger settlements & better walls? e.g. Shouldn't your people be happier if the exact same population is in a larger & better defended settlement with the exact same amenities?

1b. Citadels shouldn't have Agricultural Estates. Agricultural Estates in citadels reportedly give +8 +4 food production. This is more than those in Large Cities (+6 +1). It's even more than those in metropolises (+9). This results in a massive population boom in citadels that is practically impossible to counter due to the lack of order-increasing buildings. The Agricultural Estate isn't necessary to build to anything within a citadel, so all it does is tank your order while precluding other more useful money-generating buildings like ports and markets. As a player, you can choose not to build it, but you can't destroy one that's already built, meaning any citadel you capture with an AI-built Estate becomes a constant drain. e.g. The Romans built an Agricultural Estate in Adrianoupolis. Just to maintain a 75% order in this 99% catholic settlement that I've held for over 50 years, I currently have one thousand two hundred sixty-four men garrisoned there. and this is a settlement without ports or markets. not including free upkeep, that's 6932 florins to maintain order in a settlement that generates, at best, 3000-4000. a ridiculous drain on resources thanks to RNG.

1c. Order from garrisons is proportional to population, meaning that even a full army is insufficient to maintain order. nonsensical.

1d. It shouldn't be required to delete all ports, markets, and trading facilities when capturing territory, especially territory that is of the conqueror's religion. The AI doesn't have to do this; neither should the player.

2. Plague can make settlement income go negative. not sure what to do about it aside from manually blowing up buildings; it's just incredibly annoying.

3. The Mongols are substantially more contained in this version. As they expanded, they started having major issues with rebellions. This allowed Georgia to reappear after having been annexed. It also allowed other bordering nations to take rebel provinces that previously belonged to the Mongols. At this point, 100 years into the invasion, I'd say it's a nice tradeoff between quantity on the Mongol side and quality of heavier units and knights for most of their opposition. When the Mongols besiege a poorly-garrisoned settlement, they take it. When there's opposition, the Mongols are generally driven back.

4. Usurpers / heir apparents need to be removed. As a player, I will immediately suicide them into rebel armies, meaning that from the player perspective, they add nothing to the game aside from serving as a newbie trap. The AI doesn't seem to have to deal with them, and so, for a player, dealing with them is a waste of time and adds nothing to the game.

5. Catalan rebel spam. I'm not sure if this is intentional, but Catalan rebels spawn repeatedly by event. If left alone, additional event firings don't do anything. Eventually I just ignored the rebels and the event.

6. Roman lords spawn in Hellas, even when the Romans do not own Hellas.

7. Witches/prophets/etc. are still too powerful. If my maxed out cardinal only has a 50% shot against a middling heretic, why in the world would I risk using the intended game mechanic when I can just waste my time smothering the heretic instead? Even a low level bishop should have a chance against a 'more powerful' heretic instead of the guaranteed fall of the bishop to heresy. i.e. a low level bishop should have a fair shot against a high level heretic, and a maxed cardinal should be practically a guaranteed win.

8. The AI's pop bonus seems too high. The only thing limiting the AI's ability to spam-upgrade its settlements is money; even with insufficient settlement improvements, it can still meet the population thresholds. (see: citadel spam)

9. Improvements that give equal amounts of +population and +order should provide slightly more order due to the synergistic effects of population on unrest.

10. The Crown system needs work. As I mentioned before, the best thing to do right now is avoid it entirely, even if you meet the requirements.

11. Compared to previous releases, the early game seemed easier, probably due to increased money. Various bug fixes regarding unit production, recruitment, and upkeep have made turns 60-200 substantially less of a headache. Most of the other considerations from before remained the same, for better or worse. Over all it was a good campaign while it lasted.

12 (edit). The cap on the number of generals seems a bit low. Once you reach the cap, the game seems to stop generating children. This means that for small/mid-sized nations, you reach a point where there are no children being generated, the wives of lords grow past childbearing age, and then as your generals age and die, there's a 15-year gap where there are no new lords to replace them aside from possibly adopted children. Perhaps the restriction on men of the hour not being generated/recognized could be removed? Or perhaps the number of children could be increased above the restriction on the number of generals by 2 or 3?

[kostic]

433 turns into a campaign, and I am again calling it quits out of frustration. 46 regions controlled out of the necessary 40; all I needed to do was take Jerusalem and win. But like an idiot I decided to "play the game" and not go for the win, and so it ends like the rest. What I've meticulously clawed and scraped together over hundreds of years of careful diplomacy and unrest management falls apart because the "mercenaries need payment" from one turn to the next, as global plague that hasn't even yet afflicted the entire nation and hasn't yet reached the capital swings the nation's income by at least 100,000 florins (I don't know the exact number, but going from "embezzlement" + 30,000f before to -50,000f after is a very large swing). Once the plague ravages its way through, this will probably increase to around 200,000 florins.

Is it possible to overcome it and recover? Sure. I could save scum my way to victory. I could delete exactly the right number of units and buildings in exactly the right places to make sure I don't lose anything significant and can still fight the wars I'm currently fighting, while preempting the opportunists on my borders, and to make sure long dead nations don't suddenly pop up in the middle of my nation (as they did when I pressed next turn), but I don't want to. I'm done. The rule was "no reloading for any reason" and I already broke that rule just to see if it was possible to avert catastrophe. So here's where it ends - 1 turn before the mercenaries need payment and 2 turns before the collapse.

Here's what I would conclude from my experiences.

1. Unrest in large settlements is way too high.

1a. Why do "wall" improvements have a static -30 order penalty? Shouldn't this be reduced for larger settlements & better walls? e.g. Shouldn't your people be happier if the exact same population is in a larger & better defended settlement with the exact same amenities?

1b. Citadels shouldn't have Agricultural Estates. Agricultural Estates in citadels reportedly give +8 +4 food production. This is more than those in Large Cities (+6 +1). It's even more than those in metropolises (+9). This results in a massive population boom in citadels that is practically impossible to counter due to the lack of order-increasing buildings. The Agricultural Estate isn't necessary to build to anything within a citadel, so all it does is tank your order while precluding other more useful money-generating buildings like ports and markets. As a player, you can choose not to build it, but you can't destroy one that's already built, meaning any citadel you capture with an AI-built Estate becomes a constant drain. e.g. The Romans built an Agricultural Estate in Adrianoupolis. Just to maintain a 75% order in this 99% catholic settlement that I've held for over 50 years, I currently have one thousand two hundred sixty-four men garrisoned there. and this is a settlement without ports or markets. not including free upkeep, that's 6932 florins to maintain order in a settlement that generates, at best, 3000-4000. a ridiculous drain on resources thanks to RNG.

1c. Order from garrisons is proportional to population, meaning that even a full army is insufficient to maintain order. nonsensical.

1d. It shouldn't be required to delete all ports, markets, and trading facilities when capturing territory, especially territory that is of the conqueror's religion. The AI doesn't have to do this; neither should the player.

2. Plague can make settlement income go negative. not sure what to do about it aside from manually blowing up buildings; it's just incredibly annoying.

3. The Mongols are substantially more contained in this version. As they expanded, they started having major issues with rebellions. This allowed Georgia to reappear after having been annexed. It also allowed other bordering nations to take rebel provinces that previously belonged to the Mongols. At this point, 100 years into the invasion, I'd say it's a nice tradeoff between quantity on the Mongol side and quality of heavier units and knights for most of their opposition. When the Mongols besiege a poorly-garrisoned settlement, they take it. When there's opposition, the Mongols are generally driven back.

4. Usurpers / heir apparents need to be removed. As a player, I will immediately suicide them into rebel armies, meaning that from the player perspective, they add nothing to the game aside from serving as a newbie trap. The AI doesn't seem to have to deal with them, and so, for a player, dealing with them is a waste of time and adds nothing to the game.

5. Catalan rebel spam. I'm not sure if this is intentional, but Catalan rebels spawn repeatedly by event. If left alone, additional event firings don't do anything. Eventually I just ignored the rebels and the event.

6. Roman lords spawn in Hellas, even when the Romans do not own Hellas.

7. Witches/prophets/etc. are still too powerful. If my maxed out cardinal only has a 50% shot against a middling heretic, why in the world would I risk using the intended game mechanic when I can just waste my time smothering the heretic instead? Even a low level bishop should have a chance against a 'more powerful' heretic instead of the guaranteed fall of the bishop to heresy. i.e. a low level bishop should have a fair shot against a high level heretic, and a maxed cardinal should be practically a guaranteed win.

8. The AI's pop bonus seems too high. The only thing limiting the AI's ability to spam-upgrade its settlements is money; even with insufficient settlement improvements, it can still meet the population thresholds. (see: citadel spam)

9. Improvements that give equal amounts of +population and +order should provide slightly more order due to the synergistic effects of population on unrest.

10. The Crown system needs work. As I mentioned before, the best thing to do right now is avoid it entirely, even if you meet the requirements.

11. Compared to previous releases, the early game seemed easier, probably due to increased money. Various bug fixes regarding unit production, recruitment, and upkeep have made turns 60-200 substantially less of a headache. Most of the other considerations from before remained the same, for better or worse. Over all it was a good campaign while it lasted.

12 (edit). The cap on the number of generals seems a bit low. Once you reach the cap, the game seems to stop generating children. This means that for small/mid-sized nations, you reach a point where there are no children being generated, the wives of lords grow past childbearing age, and then as your generals age and die, there's a 15-year gap where there are no new lords to replace them aside from possibly adopted children. Perhaps the restriction on men of the hour not being generated/recognized could be removed? Or perhaps the number of children could be increased above the restriction on the number of generals by 2 or 3?

Thank you for these comments after experience. The problem of public order is perhaps indeed the most important. I remember abandoning the Egyptian (Fatimid) campaign because of revolts all over the territory - from Bohemia to Georgia, from Bulgaria to the northern Adriatic Sea, from Egypt to Iraq - despite all my efforts to maintain calm in my colonies.

[Jurand of Cracow]

@Gaku, is your campaign a continuation of one those, or it's again a new one?

[Gaku]

@Gaku, is your campaign a continuation of one those, or it's again a new one?

This was a new one I started a month ago.

[Jurand of Cracow]

This was a new one I started a month ago.

Very good. I've added it here. Missing all your though. If you upload a save, then it'd be even better.

So tell me also how do you like my recent changes to Hungary? These were made mainly for you. Actually, the factions I've spent the most of my modding time are: Georgia, Poland, Hungary.

What I've meticulously clawed and scraped together over hundreds of years of careful diplomacy and unrest management falls apart because the "mercenaries need payment" from one turn to the next, as global plague that hasn't even yet afflicted the entire nation and hasn't yet reached the capital swings the nation's income by at least 100,000 florins (I don't know the exact number, but going from "embezzlement" + 30,000f before to -50,000f after is a very large swing). Once the plague ravages its way through, this will probably increase to around 200,000 florins.

Is it possible to overcome it and recover? Sure. I could save scum my way to victory. I could delete exactly the right number of units and buildings in exactly the right places to make sure I don't lose anything significant and can still fight the wars I'm currently fighting, while preempting the opportunists on my borders, and to make sure long dead nations don't suddenly pop up in the middle of my nation (as they did when I pressed next turn), but I don't want to. I'm done. The rule was "no reloading for any reason" and I already broke that rule just to see if it was possible to avert catastrophe. So here's where it ends - 1 turn before the mercenaries need payment and 2 turns before the collapse.

Sounds like something that is, hmm, a great experience imho. It's like in the Civ4 mod "Rise and Fall of civilizations"... Great for an AAR.

Here's what I would conclude from my experiences.
1. Unrest in large settlements is way too high.
1a. Why do "wall" improvements have a static -30 order penalty? Shouldn't this be reduced for larger settlements & better walls? e.g. Shouldn't your people be happier if the exact same population is in a larger & better defended settlement with the exact same amenities?
1b. Citadels shouldn't have Agricultural Estates. Agricultural Estates in citadels reportedly give +8 +4 food production. This is more than those in Large Cities (+6 +1). It's even more than those in metropolises (+9). This results in a massive population boom in citadels that is practically impossible to counter due to the lack of order-increasing buildings. The Agricultural Estate isn't necessary to build to anything within a citadel, so all it does is tank your order while precluding other more useful money-generating buildings like ports and markets. As a player, you can choose not to build it, but you can't destroy one that's already built, meaning any citadel you capture with an AI-built Estate becomes a constant drain. e.g. The Romans built an Agricultural Estate in Adrianoupolis. Just to maintain a 75% order in this 99% catholic settlement that I've held for over 50 years, I currently have one thousand two hundred sixty-four men garrisoned there. and this is a settlement without ports or markets. not including free upkeep, that's 6932 florins to maintain order in a settlement that generates, at best, 3000-4000. a ridiculous drain on resources thanks to RNG.
1c. Order from garrisons is proportional to population, meaning that even a full army is insufficient to maintain order. nonsensical.
1d. It shouldn't be required to delete all ports, markets, and trading facilities when capturing territory, especially territory that is of the conqueror's religion. The AI doesn't have to do this; neither should the player.

2. Plague can make settlement income go negative. not sure what to do about it aside from manually blowing up buildings; it's just incredibly annoying.

3. The Mongols are substantially more contained in this version. As they expanded, they started having major issues with rebellions. This allowed Georgia to reappear after having been annexed. It also allowed other bordering nations to take rebel provinces that previously belonged to the Mongols. At this point, 100 years into the invasion, I'd say it's a nice tradeoff between quantity on the Mongol side and quality of heavier units and knights for most of their opposition. When the Mongols besiege a poorly-garrisoned settlement, they take it. When there's opposition, the Mongols are generally driven back.

4. Usurpers / heir apparents need to be removed. As a player, I will immediately suicide them into rebel armies, meaning that from the player perspective, they add nothing to the game aside from serving as a newbie trap. The AI doesn't seem to have to deal with them, and so, for a player, dealing with them is a waste of time and adds nothing to the game.

5. Catalan rebel spam. I'm not sure if this is intentional, but Catalan rebels spawn repeatedly by event. If left alone, additional event firings don't do anything. Eventually I just ignored the rebels and the event.

6. Roman lords spawn in Hellas, even when the Romans do not own Hellas.

7. Witches/prophets/etc. are still too powerful. If my maxed out cardinal only has a 50% shot against a middling heretic, why in the world would I risk using the intended game mechanic when I can just waste my time smothering the heretic instead? Even a low level bishop should have a chance against a 'more powerful' heretic instead of the guaranteed fall of the bishop to heresy. i.e. a low level bishop should have a fair shot against a high level heretic, and a maxed cardinal should be practically a guaranteed win.

8. The AI's pop bonus seems too high. The only thing limiting the AI's ability to spam-upgrade its settlements is money; even with insufficient settlement improvements, it can still meet the population thresholds. (see: citadel spam)

9. Improvements that give equal amounts of +population and +order should provide slightly more order due to the synergistic effects of population on unrest.

10. The Crown system needs work. As I mentioned before, the best thing to do right now is avoid it entirely, even if you meet the requirements.

11. Compared to previous releases, the early game seemed easier, probably due to increased money. Various bug fixes regarding unit production, recruitment, and upkeep have made turns 60-200 substantially less of a headache. Most of the other considerations from before remained the same, for better or worse. Over all it was a good campaign while it lasted.

12 (edit). The cap on the number of generals seems a bit low. Once you reach the cap, the game seems to stop generating children. This means that for small/mid-sized nations, you reach a point where there are no children being generated, the wives of lords grow past childbearing age, and then as your generals age and die, there's a 15-year gap where there are no new lords to replace them aside from possibly adopted children. Perhaps the restriction on men of the hour not being generated/recognized could be removed? Or perhaps the number of children could be increased above the restriction on the number of generals by 2 or 3?

I'll answer schrittweise.

[Gaku]

Very good. I've added it here. Missing all your though. If you upload a save, then it'd be even better.

So tell me also how do you like my recent changes to Hungary? These were made mainly for you. Actually, the factions I've spent the most of my modding time are: Georgia, Poland, Hungary.


Sounds like something that is, hmm, a great experience imho. It's like in the Civ4 mod "Rise and Fall of civilizations"... Great for an AAR.



I'll answer schrittweise.

missing my complaining? I had a massive document with the AAR-type info. but it got so bloated that I decided not to post it. I started a new one and accidentally Saved over it instead of Saving As so it's gone forever now. Keeping track of how many battles had taken place at each settlement was its own entire section. I think in the future I will ignore constructions, as this took up way too much of the document.

Here's the save though: https://www.mediafire.com/file/2x246...ghjjh.sav/file
note this is after my meager attempts to deal with the impending disaster. In hindsight, there's no real rhyme or reason as to which units are considered mercenaries, so it probably would have been fine regardless, but what's done is done.

I'd already played Hungary with the changes, though not this long of a campaign. From what I recall, it's mostly the same impression I had posted before: the bug fixes and unit fixes are pretty great, so Hungary doesn't needlessly struggle quite as much from turns 50-150. Saxons are a nice touch and a nice counter to other factions' units. The increased money helps maintain garrisons in the poor provinces in the very early game. The Var construction line is pretty cool and very useful. It is sadly lacking in Castles, though.

I still think some of the province borders would be better off changed, but the current situation is not bad. It does however mean that Belgrade/Sirmium is a an absolute must own province for Hungary. so much so that I begin turn 1 with the cheese-conquest of Belgrade. Letting the Romans have it is an instant game over. Letting Serbia have it isn't game over, but it is incredibly annoying to the point that I'd restart a campaign over it anyway. (This is due to the border issues.)

Hungary's economy really starts to boom around turn 200. Surviving to that point requires a substantial amount of cheese strats, including all kinds of battle/AI abuse. After that point, I quite enjoyed being on equal footing with the surrounding nations, even the bigs, and could fight fair which was a nice change.

I have been considering possibly streaming a new campaign. but I think the reliance on AI abuse and cheese strats would make for a particularly bad stream. My end goal, if I ever manage to actually win a campaign, is to upload the map timelapse to YouTube. I keep screenshots of every turn for this purpose. but I'm not going to upload the timelapse for a failed campaign.

I do have a few takeaways and ideas for what to do differently in the future. Probably the most important is to completely ignore everything east of the Carpathians until the very end of the campaign; I invested too much time and effort for hardly any benefit. Focus on killing the HRE and moving into Italy instead of wasting too much effort on the Balkans.

Also, as an aside, I really think rebellions should be AI armies besieging your settlements, instead of your units being kicked out for no logical reason.

[Skräckvälder]

Will the Teutonic Order be added? They are my favs

[Jurand of Cracow]

Will the Teutonic Order be added? They are my favs

as units and buildings - yes, they are in the game, there're some issues reported with the fundation, but these will have an updated way, and perhaps the units will be updated (if @kostic will fancy it ;-)
as a faction - probably not, unless there's a modder who would create a High/Late Era scenario

[ps4performer]

Hello I have downloaded that file https://www.moddb.com/mods/sship/dow...98-august-2023 but it doesn't seem like the latest version of the mod. For example, I play as the Byzantines and Naissos doesn't exist or I can't select/change my heir. Also some units are absent, Symmachika Tagmata for example, even I see differences in the units icons.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hello I have downloaded that file https://www.moddb.com/mods/sship/dow...98-august-2023 but it doesn't seem like the latest version of the mod. For example, I play as the Byzantines and Naissos doesn't exist or I can't select/change my heir. Also some units are absent, Symmachika Tagmata for example, even I see differences in the units icons.

This is the latest version indeed. Naissos has been replaced by Belograd precisely in this version. See discussion in the Map thread.

[ps4performer]

This is the latest version indeed. Naissos has been replaced by Belograd precisely in this version. See discussion in the Map thread.

Ok thanks. And what about the other issues, especially the heir one?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Ok thanks. And what about the other issues, especially the heir one?

STagmata - 3years ago there was an update by nicossaiz and there's what he introduced.
heir - you should be able to select a new candidate for the Heir when either Faction Leader or Faction Heir dies, or at the beginning of the game. It should be present in the mod, I haven't seen other complaints about it.