Empire roster released.

[Jokern]

Fewer higher quality units is better than reskinned piffle we've seen before. That's assuming that units are well developed and diverse in-game, of course.

This roster seems light years better than rosters of any other CA vanilla nation since Shogun 1. This is better than I expected, frankly.
Let's be real here, expecting moon and the stars here is just a recipe for disappointment. We all know there will be DLC with extra units. We all know there will be mods adding other, lesser known, Warhammer extras.

Yet in the screenshots we've seen of the Empire units, especially the standard swordsmen, spearmen and gunners, they don't look particularly like high quality compared to older games. Their design, in my opinion at least, does not match the very vibrant, superstitious and flamboyant look of those on the tabletop or in the artwork.

However, the other races seem to have gone through a lot more work in that department, so that I applaud CA for. But why not for the de facto main protagonist race of Warhammer Fantasy?

[DavidtheDuke]

However, the other races seem to have gone through a lot more work in that department, so that I applaud CA for. But why not for the de facto main protagonist race of Warhammer Fantasy?

This is what really gets me about it. The state troops look so boring and bland. The dwarfs, orcs, AND chaos look absolutely bloody fantastic. What gives? It's not like they didn't have lots of material to base the models off of.

[sataricon]

This sounds like a generic Reikland roster.

You can probably access other knightly orders through some sort of levy mechanic, or by securing certain counts' loyalty. Same for specific regional units. Flagelants could be somehow related to the church, perhaps by enlisting a luthor huss-esque lord. These are the kind of troops you shouldn't really be able to recruit by hitting a button in the UI and getting as many as you please.

The one thing missing that worries me is the mortar, archers are easier to mod in if they aren't in the game in any of the ways stated above.

You do realize that this is ALL the units you will get because they have released the entire roster and they made no mention of getting new units when you take other parts.
This is the entire imperial army.

And what mods?....there won't be any mods because Sega/CA will not support it with any tools and i'm sure as hell that faking Games Workshop will not allow any mods to this game.

Why are people defending this ?
Why are people making excuses for sega/CA?

No wonder they like to milk their fan base dry.

[Rogal Dorn 229]

As a table top Empire(and Tomb Kings and Skaven) player, this roster makes me very sad. I mean, I can understand missing out the various knightly orders which, while they would be cool to have, are(outside of the knights of the White Wolf) not that different to standard Reiksguard(in terms of how they fight). But archers? Mortars? FREE COMPANY? Where else am I going to find an effective meat shield? The Empire is meant to be one of the most versatile armies in Fantasy. But now I can see the Middenland and other States unit pack DLC coming...

[MissRarity]

You do realize that this is ALL the units you will get because they have released the entire roster and they made no mention of getting new units when you take other parts.
This is the entire imperial army.

And what mods?....there won't be any mods because Sega/CA will not support it with any tools and i'm sure as hell that faking Games Workshop will not allow any mods to this game.

Why are people defending this ?
Why are people making excuses for sega/CA?

No wonder they like to milk their fan base dry.

As a table top Empire(and Tomb Kings and Skaven) player, this roster makes me very sad. I mean, I can understand missing out the various knightly orders which, while they would be cool to have, are(outside of the knights of the White Wolf) not that different to standard Reiksguard(in terms of how they fight). But archers? Mortars? FREE COMPANY? Where else am I going to find an effective meat shield? The Empire is meant to be one of the most versatile armies in Fantasy. But now I can see the Middenland and other States unit pack DLC coming...

I guess you have to sacrifice your hard-working Statesmen with spears now.

Seriously CA, when i can get a free mod for Medival 2 that has MORE Warhammer then your company can put in to your WARHAMMER TOTAL WAR game, seriously consider disbanding and going to Kickstarter.

This is not CA's fault most likely. Its SEGA, those greedy dicks.

[Pericles of Athens]

As a table top Empire(and Tomb Kings and Skaven) player, this roster makes me very sad. I mean, I can understand missing out the various knightly orders which, while they would be cool to have, are(outside of the knights of the White Wolf) not that different to standard Reiksguard(in terms of how they fight). But archers? Mortars? FREE COMPANY? Where else am I going to find an effective meat shield? The Empire is meant to be one of the most versatile armies in Fantasy. But now I can see the Middenland and other States unit pack DLC coming...

I think Free Company might fall under mercs. IDK.

[petertel123]

Fewer higher quality units is better than reskinned piffle we've seen before. That's assuming that units are well developed and diverse in-game, of course.

Empire troops have been pretty mediocre looking in all footage so far, and considering that all the state troopers will probably use the same skins I'm not really seeing the great quality and depth that has been promised.
About diversity in game: I'm not really seeing any tactical advantage of using spearmen without shields over spearmen with shields, or really of using any spearmen over halbardiers

[Frost, colonel]

A lot of people make the point that the cost of games hasn't gone up, so why should the quality, but the developers are selling far more games now than they used to, which is why the games industry has Hollywood movie sized budgets and studios with hundreds of staff.

Games are priced at the market rate, the quality reflects the market demand. If games companies weren't making enough money whilst meeting the demand then the investors would soon stop investing. In CA's case that would mean sega would turn off the money tap.
Instead sega have invested in an IP license and a trilogy of games, that tells you everything you need to know about how much money Sega think warhammer: TW could make them.

Especially when you consider the risk they are taking by investing in an IP license, I have no doubt that GW included a clause in the contract, which allows them to claim damages from sega if sega fail to release the game.

Thankyou hep for your reply,

Interested in "the quality reflects the market demand." What does this mean? Some would then say that the demand for quality must have come down in recent years as we having seen the increasing introduction of games seemingly having less base content yet increasing DLC.
Another way it could be analysed is that gamers just kept buying whilst less was being served up, in other words apathy ruled the day. I would re-term "the quality reflects the market demand" to "the quality reflects on what mugs some of the developers think their customers are, and what exactly they think they can get away with." Yes I understand that some developers are much better than others.

[Saladin]

iirc dawn of war didn't have full rosters either, but expanded them as they went. for me its too early to judge, though i agree the look of the empire is a little bland compared to what we have seen of the other races.

[Frost, colonel]

They look a lot to me ...
Too much stuff it becomes confusing .
I am just wondering , no Archers?

I have mixed views on this PROM, to someone who doesn't know Warhammer like me, the roster does seem reasonable, and a part of me agrees with you that too much stuff it becomes confusing. But as others have stated CA did tell us about depth, although perhaps CA were not thinking about complete rosters in this regard.
One could also offer that the type of roster many of these chaps want would allow for fun and immersion regarding composition and experimentation whilst building forces, and that some key pieces are simply missing.

[Frost, colonel]

That doesn't make any sense at all. We had these games, community based games, called Counter-Strike and DOTA. Today they are so much better than they were, and they are now commercially made. CS:Go, LoL and DOTA2 are on the top of the world. It isn't unrealistic at all. CA spent so much time doing facial animations and creating a fake politics system for Rome 2 to pull the wool over your eyes that could have been spent putting in actual features and balancing the game like mods do. Do you remember when they announced weekly patching for Rome 2 until the game was fixed? CA told us that. And that lastly exactly, exactly, one week. They missed the deadline in week #2. They can't keep their word when it comes to anything.

So just stop with the excuses for CA. Just stop.

You don't have to excuse incompetence. CA chooses to be like this. They are choosing to do this. They choose to release Rome 2. They choose to work with Sega. And you can choose to stop defending them.

I don't understand why some people today don't think that people and organizations should be held accountable for their actions.

Hold on, I disliked that RTWII farcial launch as much as the next player, it's why I don't trust CA and why I won't pre-order TW:W until I see a trusted review.
But are you really saying CA are incompetent because RTW1 didn't come out looking and playing like the EB mod(apart from it's ctds that is)? Do you really expect any commercial company to produce that modded game on release day? It was a labour of bloody love taking thousands of hours.

[MrOuija]

I have mixed views on this PROM, to someone who doesn't know Warhammer like me, the roster does seem reasonable, and a part of me agrees with you that too much stuff it becomes confusing. But as others have stated CA did tell us about depth, although perhaps CA were not thinking about complete rosters in this regard.
One could also offer that the type of roster many of these chaps want would allow for fun and immersion regarding composition and experimentation whilst building forces, and that some key pieces are simply missing.

The deep not wide claim came in direct response to a criticism that the game would only ship with 4 playable factions, so yeah they were talking about rosters at the time. They're also the ones that said:

In the case of Warhammer, we want it all. All the races. All the units . All the magic. As authentically as we can possibly make it. With the best possible TW gameplay in there too.

[LionElJonson]

To be honest the most important thing is that they add the unit types. Mods can offer more flavor units with different skins and textures later down the line.

[Frost, colonel]

The deep not wide claim came in direct response to a criticism that the game would only ship with 4 playable factions, so yeah they were talking about rosters at the time. They're also the ones that said: "In the case of Warhammer, we want it all. All the races. All the units . All the magic. As authentically as we can possibly make it. With the best possible TW gameplay in there too".

Well as another poster said it's to early, as their above quote doesn't say it will all be included regardless of DLC. Really hoping they do improve the look of the Empires ordinary troops though, and the one's we have seen are just place holders, but I'm probably just dreaming!

That CA quote I mean I'd like to buy into it, but there's this part of me that's saying who are they trying to kid. The only way were gonna be gettin "In the case of Warhammer, we want it all. All the races. All the units . All the magic. As authentically as we can possibly make it. With the best possible TW gameplay in there too". Is through DLC, and even then I think we will be lucky. What they say and what we get have often been poles apart, unless they just want to shine for a change.

[August]

Yet in the screenshots we've seen of the Empire units, especially the standard swordsmen, spearmen and gunners, they don't look particularly like high quality compared to older games. Their design, in my opinion at least, does not match the very vibrant, superstitious and flamboyant look of those on the tabletop or in the artwork.

However, the other races seem to have gone through a lot more work in that department, so that I applaud CA for. But why not for the de facto main protagonist race of Warhammer Fantasy?

I have a feeling that Empire stuff was not fully implemented at that point (in fact, I recall that being said explicitly when they showed the Ork vs. Empire). So, it may look better in the final version...

Or it may not... And yet, even if that is true, the roster is still better than the roster of any nation in the previous TW games. Also, the actual, tabletop rank-and-file minis of the empire were never as spectacular as their art...

I am not a big fan of CA nowadays, but I will give credit where its due. Unit variety had improved dramatically, and that's good.

[Frost, colonel]

To be honest the most important thing is that they add the unit types. Mods can offer more flavor units with different skins and textures later down the line.

Can anyone give clarification on this point, do we believe GW will allow it? How forcefully have GW been in the past in enforcing their rights against anything remotely similar to this?

[damien007]

Can anyone give clarification on this point, do we believe GW will allow it? How forcefully have GW been in the past in enforcing their rights against anything remotely similar to this?

CA have said it only won't be officially supported, but if it uses the same open DB structure as all other Warscape games new units will be easy to mod in. GW can't stop people from making mods assuming it's possible.

[August]

Can anyone give clarification on this point, do we believe GW will allow it? How forcefully have GW been in the past in enforcing their rights against anything remotely similar to this?

Total War: Call of Warhammer is pretty much the most comprehensive Warhammer game/mod in existence. Never seemed to have run afoul with GW lawyer legion. So, probably safe territory.

[Saladin]

i think they will, the recent explosion of warhammer fantasy games based on pre Age of Sigmar shows that they are basically trying to continue to make money off it, but i doubt they will be as strict as they used to be. Medieval 2 had little to no mod support as well.

[Frost, colonel]

Total War: Call of Warhammer is pretty much the most comprehensive Warhammer game/mod in existence. Never seemed to have run afoul with GW lawyer legion. So, probably safe territory.

Yes sounds right actually and I'm a dummy for not thinking of it. GW sold their IP thingy a while ago to Sega, Call of Warhammer would surely have been blocked ages ago if there was a problem, even from a, the mod competing with an upcoming release perspective, so hopefully this tolerance also applies to what might be seen as a threat to the planned DLC.