Empire roster released.

[Derpy Hooves]

You do realize that this is ALL the units you will get because they have released the entire roster and they made no mention of getting new units when you take other parts.
This is the entire imperial army.

And what mods?....there won't be any mods because Sega/CA will not support it with any tools and i'm sure as hell that faking Games Workshop will not allow any mods to this game.

Why are people defending this ?
Why are people making excuses for sega/CA?

No wonder they like to milk their fan base dry.

False, Empire Total War and Napoleon Total War had as much official mod support as TWW will get: little to none.
Despite that fact, ETW has dozens of hosted mods on this site, and hundreds of other mods on this site. Napoleon has about a dozen hosted mods and
The Great War mod. And these two games were made on the same engine as TWW.

Now as for the unit roster, it's not the best, but I am going to wait until we get more information before judging.

[Markas]

When CA go big they fail miserably. When they scale back they succeed. A well-balanced roster is more important than an expansive one just there for the sake of perceived variety.

[Beregond]

Personally I've not played five different grand campaigns on a TW game since Med2. Because the factions are too similar to each other to offer a really different experience.

honestly, it's the same for me.
Saddening

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Long as the Faction is playable without any DLC that's all that really matters. Anything else is an added bonus.

Archers are about the only thing needed that are missing. I mean, a fantasy game without Human Archers? lol. That's like having Elves that don't use bows.

They are however not Medieval humans, but rather Renaissance humans. That said, it is odd that they still got spearmen, generally spearmen had already been replaced by pikemen and haldberdiers even before bows became obsolete.

Now the roster apperently makes a distincion between spearmen with or without shields. I wonder what spearmen without shields could be? Would these perhaps be weirdly named pikemen?

btw, to those who say this roster is larger and better than most rosters in previous tw games - no it is not.
even if we do not compare it to tabletop one. It's the first TW game where we'd have only 4 playable factions (=races) at the start.
only 4

this roster has to be much larger and has more variety to add replayability. rome 2 had twice the number of factions at launch and seeing this roster I do not believe we'd have THAT much difference playing different Lords.

It would appear someone has forgotten about a little game known as Shogun 2 (and Shogun 1, but that game also had Mongols in the expansion) which technically only had one faction and with less units per faction aswell. Once all the DLC had been released it turned out more units were added in the DLCs than there were vanilla units... What matters is never number of units, but that the factions have all their relevant units and that these make them diverse from other factions (CA's greatest failure in this regard would be ETW which unit additions focused on adding distinguished regiments rather than properly portraying each faction's unique approach to warfare).

[Markas]

btw, to those who say this roster is larger and better than most rosters in previous tw games - no it is not.
even if we do not compare it to tabletop one. It's the first TW game where we'd have only 4 playable factions (=races) at the start.
only 4

this roster has to be much larger and has more variety to add replayability. rome 2 had twice the number of factions at launch and seeing this roster I do not believe we'd have THAT much difference playing different Lords.

As has been pointed out Shogun 2 was one of the most polished and complete TW games of all and had a homogeneity of units and one race. Hopefully CA have finally learned from this.

[Person012345]

When CA go big they fail miserably. When they scale back they succeed. A well-balanced roster is more important than an expansive one just there for the sake of perceived variety.

Well then charge appropriately. You can't charge 50 damn quid for 4 factions on the promise of so much variety and "every unit" then leave out the most basic core units like archers and mortars. This would be fine as a thing to say if the game cost £20 and I'd agree wholeheartedly, but it doesn't. We want more from this game because the game demands more money from us.

[Markas]

Well then charge appropriately. You can't charge 50 damn quid for 4 factions on the promise of so much variety and "every unit" then leave out the most basic core units like archers and mortars. This would be fine as a thing to say if the game cost £20 and I'd agree wholeheartedly, but it doesn't. We want more from this game because the game demands more money from us.

Yeah, you can if every race is actually different and has different mechanics. Not having Archers or Mortars doesn't suddenly mean they should reduce the price by £30. If all factions play the same then I'll agree but so far they seem pretty unique to me without very unit from the TT.

[August]

Again, I have to ask, which units here did you expect to be missing? We already knew of the cool looking units, the demigryphs, steam tanks, luminark from the blackfire pass video. So aside from those, which units did you expect not to be there exactly?

Why would I not include Blackfire pass as a measure of whether the nation's roster meets my expectations?! I expected a bunch of infantry, a bunch of boring Knight orders, artillery, maybe a Steam Tank... MAYBE. I did not expect Luminarchs, Demis, bunch of heroes, flying mounts, etc...

I do not expect any big changes from CA anymore, I expect those only from modders. I was pleasantly surprised, at least in this respect.

[Person012345]

Yeah, you can if every race is actually different and has different mechanics. Not having Archers or Mortars doesn't suddenly mean they should reduce the price by £30. If all factions play the same then I'll agree but so far they seem pretty unique to me without very unit from the TT.

Sure, but the rosters are missing far more than just archers and mortars. Those are simply the very basic core units, the MINIMUM I would expect, that they left out. If we start going into lore and all the units they could have used then they're missing wayyyy more.

I don't know why you think a few (probably overall relatively minor, I don't think this will be a giant leap in mechanics for total war, it'll be tweaking of how each factions plays to give it a unique twist) justifies the slicing of the game down to 4 factions and then bumping the price up quite significantly. If it included all the basic units I wouldn't be complaining most likely. My problem is that, despite all the promises, they haven't even done that and this game still costs way over the odds.

Why would I not include Blackfire pass as a measure of whether the nation's roster meets my expectations?! I expected a bunch of infantry, a bunch of boring Knight orders, artillery, maybe a Steam Tank... MAYBE. I did not expect Luminarchs, Demis, bunch of heroes, flying mounts, etc...

I do not expect any big changes from CA anymore, I expect those only from modders. I was pleasantly surprised, at least in this respect.

uh, because you said you expected less. Unless you didn't watch the blackfire pass demo or are just incredibly stupid/have a very short memory, you expected at minimum, if you weren't paying much attention attention and only looked at the shiny units, the demigryphs, the steam tank, the luminark, the hellstorm and the hellblaster and the celestial wizard. So, which of the remaining units that ended up in the roster were you "not expecting"?

[August]

uh, because you said you expected less. Unless you didn't watch the blackfire pass demo or are just incredibly stupid/have a very short memory, you expected at minimum, if you weren't paying much attention attention and only looked at the shiny units, the demigryphs, the steam tank, the luminark, the hellstorm and the hellblaster and the celestial wizard. So, which of the remaining units that ended up in the roster were you "not expecting"?

This is not a massive leap of logic. I had expectations on what Empire would look like when the game was announced. Anything they reveal after that announcement would be compared to my original expectations. I stated, verbatim: "this is better than I expected". Which means: "the variety of units CA has for the Empire since they announced the game (April 22 2015) is better than I expected". I'm not sure I can explain it any simpler.

And to answer your question under your oddly specific conditions: "I expected nothing from CA. Not a bloody thing." Does this answer satisfy?

Also, if you cannot talk in a civil manner do not talk to me at all, please.

Good day.

[Markas]

I don't know why you think a few (probably overall relatively minor, I don't think this will be a giant leap in mechanics for total war, it'll be tweaking of how each factions plays to give it a unique twist) justifies the slicing of the game down to 4 factions and then bumping the price up quite significantly.

Because it's four races, not factions, and then we have the non-playable races as well. That's a completely new set of animations and size for every race, including monstrous creatures and the inclusion of magic. Even if I don't agree with the steep price-tag (which frankly I don't unless the game is out of this world) I can definitely see where the work is going and how much has been implemented.

[Person012345]

This is not a massive leap of logic. I had expectations on what Empire would look like when the game was announced. Anything they reveal after that announcement would be compared to my original expectations. I stated, verbatim: "this is better than I expected". Which means: "the variety of units CA has for the Empire since they announced the game (April 22 2015) is better than I expected". I'm not sure I can explain it any simpler.

And to answer your question under your oddly specific conditions: "I expected nothing from CA. Not a bloody thing." Does this answer satisfy?

Also, if you cannot talk in a civil manner do not talk to me at all, please.

Good day.

Yeah, I was assuming you meant what you expected prior to the roster announcement since you know, we're talking about the roster announcement. If you mean that the roster is much bigger than what you expected when they announced the game, well that's an ENTIRELY different proposition. When they announced the game, we certainly didn't know the price and as far as I remember we didn't know there would only be 4 factions and they hadn't made all these promises, so that changes up the equation entirely. When they announced the game I wasn't expecting anything in particular.

I'd go as far as to say that telling us that you didn't expect this much when the game was initially announced is completely useless. It tells us nothing of your satisfaction with the roster as released. It's funny how I've seen a few people saying "I didn't even expect this much" on the subject of the roster announcement as some sort of defense or hit back against the people criticising it and when I call them on it, every single time they can't name a single unit of the roster that they legitimately didn't expect just prior to the release of the roster. Aside from the few shiny marketing units that we all knew about months ago, the roster is extremely basic which is what most people who have a problem have a problem with. So telling us that you expected less when the game was first announced does nothing as a counter point and really doesn't even tell us how or why you're so satisfied with the roster as it is even.

Because it's four races, not factions, and then we have the non-playable races as well. That's a completely new set of animations and size for every race, including monstrous creatures and the inclusion of magic. Even if I don't agree with the steep price-tag (which frankly I don't unless the game is out of this world) I can definitely see where the work is going and how much has been implemented.

Why do people say this? "It's not 4 factions, it's 4 races". What does that even mean? There's no indication that the legendary lords will get different rosters or anything, there are 4 playable factions with 4 rosters and 4 different mechanics. "races" aren't even an accurate way to describe them since the humans have several different nations that will presumably be in the final game and there's no indication that bretonnia and empire will be tied together in any way to justify this "not factions but races" line. As far as I'm concerned, the 4 "races" in WH TW are 4 factions. I don't see on what basis you can argue differently.

And ok, point taken about non-playable races needing some stuff doing, but frankly that should be factored into the price of the forthcoming games and DLCs. In fact, I'd be willing to wager they ARE factored into them anyway. I don't think that races and factions that will be added into the game properly in DLCs and things really justify the price. And the price is a sticking point for me because with only 4 playable races/factions/whatevers I was expecting more for the money, honestly. I've no doubt the game cost a lot to make, but that doesn't necessarily translate into what the customer gets and so jacking the price up isn't necessarily warranted from a consumer point of view. Of course, if the price of the game does include all the non-playable races and then two following games were somewhat cheaper since the groundwork for them, partially completed rosters and so on, are already in the game then I will ease up on this a bit. I'm not convinced that will be the case though. I think this game will end up, all in, costing an insane amount of money and I really want my value's worth from it.

[Markas]

Why do people say this? "It's not 4 factions, it's 4 races". What does that even mean? There's no indication that the legendary lords will get different rosters or anything, there are 4 playable factions with 4 rosters and 4 different mechanics. "races" aren't even an accurate way to describe them since the humans have several different nations that will presumably be in the final game and there's no indication that bretonnia and empire will be tied together in any way to justify this "not factions but races" line. As far as I'm concerned, the 4 "races" in WH TW are 4 factions. I don't see on what basis you can argue differently.

I'm arguing on the basis that having, say, thirty factions in a previous game that use the same models just reskined is different to the workload presented by creating models for monstrous creatures of varying shapes and sizes, including in the standard units (which will not to our knowledge 'share' units as in previous TW games) and magical effects. It makes for more work, and man-hours cost money, which will always be reflected in the price.

And ok, point taken about non-playable races needing some stuff doing, but frankly that should be factored into the price of the forthcoming games and DLCs. In fact, I'd be willing to wager they ARE factored into them anyway. I don't think that races and factions that will be added into the game properly in DLCs and things really justify the price. And the price is a sticking point for me because with only 4 playable races/factions/whatevers I was expecting more for the money, honestly. I've no doubt the game cost a lot to make, but that doesn't necessarily translate into what the customer gets and so jacking the price up isn't necessarily warranted from a consumer point of view. Of course, if the price of the game does include all the non-playable races and then two following games were somewhat cheaper since the groundwork for them, partially completed rosters and so on, are already in the game then I will ease up on this a bit. I'm not convinced that will be the case though. I think this game will end up, all in, costing an insane amount of money and I really want my value's worth from it.

Well, it's early days and no conclusion can really be drawn from the little we've seen. It does seem CA is quite confident to release campaign footage five months before release (Rome 2's was closer to release, IIRC) though, which might suggest the game might be worth the rather steep £50... but pre-ordering is a no-no for me.

[August]

Yeah, I was assuming you meant what you expected prior to the roster announcement since you know, we're talking about the roster announcement. If you mean that the roster is much bigger than what you expected when they announced the game, well that's an ENTIRELY different proposition. When they announced the game, we certainly didn't know the price and as far as I remember we didn't know there would only be 4 factions and they hadn't made all these promises, so that changes up the equation entirely. When they announced the game I wasn't expecting anything in particular.

I'd go as far as to say that telling us that you didn't expect this much when the game was initially announced is completely useless. It tells us nothing of your satisfaction with the roster as released. It's funny how I've seen a few people saying "I didn't even expect this much" on the subject of the roster announcement as some sort of defense or hit back against the people criticising it and when I call them on it, every single time they can't name a single unit of the roster that they legitimately didn't expect just prior to the release of the roster. Aside from the few shiny marketing units that we all knew about months ago, the roster is extremely basic which is what most people who have a problem have a problem with. So telling us that you expected less when the game was first announced does nothing as a counter point and really doesn't even tell us how or why you're so satisfied with the roster as it is even.

I still do not understand why it is so outlandish to base my impressions against the larger timeline, rather than reacting to each event separately. Where I'm sitting, it's the latter that is less meaningful. My satisfaction with the roster is not contingent on the knee-jerk reaction of the moment, but on the overall picture of the development of the nation.

If you find that position useless, well... I can't help you, and you should have ignored the comment in the first place since there doesn't seem to be any constructive direction this exchange could possibly take.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

It's a rather disappointing roster, coming straight from playing Call of Warhammer. Where are all the different knighthood orders? Where are the crazy specialist engineer units, with repeating handguns or primitive sniper rifles? Where are the mercenaries?

The only knights in the entire empire are Reiksguard knights? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Saladin]

It's a rather disappointing roster, coming straight from playing Call of Warhammer. Where are all the different knighthood orders? Where are the crazy specialist engineer units, with repeating handguns or primitive sniper rifles? Where are the mercenaries?

The only knights in the entire empire are Reiksguard knights? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Regional. The Knightly Orders are not all based in Altdorf. In Reikland you have Reiksguard, Knights Griffon, and Highhelms(tall helms can't remember). Knights of the Blazing Sun are based in Carroburg and to a lesser extent Talabheim,(though i can see some lore fuddling and basing them in Averland as COW did) Knights of the White Wolf is Middenheim and Talabheim, Knights Panther are based in Talabheim and Middenheim, Black Guard of Morr is based Tilea, but if they are added i can see them having a presence in Ostermark and Stirland due to nearness to Vampire infested Sylvania. Sons of Manann are based out of Marienburg. Honestly i see a dlc/freelc for them adding in Grand Masters and Kurt Helborg.

As far as archers go, Reikland is one of the more advanced and richer provinces in the empire. I see archers/huntsmen coming in the more rustic provinces such as
Talabecland and Stirland. Especially Stirland, which has been widely noted as one of the poorer provinces. To me a similar thing is going on with the lack of Skarsnik, squigs, and Belegar Ironhammer, which I see as a potential "War for Karak Eight Peaks" pack coming shortly after the release of the Skaven so to include
Queek Headtaker.

[Fallen851]

When CA go big they fail miserably. When they scale back they succeed. A well-balanced roster is more important than an expansive one just there for the sake of perceived variety.

Two very good points, particularly the first. Shogun 2 is a good example of a scaled back game they did well.

However, in regards to the second point I'm sure a bunch of DLCs will come along giving variety for the sake of variety, so I'm not sure that CA is concerned with a well-balanced roster as much as making money.

[Person012345]

Regional. The Knightly Orders are not all based in Altdorf. In Reikland you have Reiksguard, Knights Griffon, and Highhelms(tall helms can't remember). Knights of the Blazing Sun are based in Carroburg and to a lesser extent Talabheim,(though i can see some lore fuddling and basing them in Averland as COW did) Knights of the White Wolf is Middenheim and Talabheim, Knights Panther are based in Talabheim and Middenheim, Black Guard of Morr is based Tilea, but if they are added i can see them having a presence in Ostermark and Stirland due to nearness to Vampire infested Sylvania. Sons of Manann are based out of Marienburg. Honestly i see a dlc/freelc for them adding in Grand Masters and Kurt Helborg.

As far as archers go, Reikland is one of the more advanced and richer provinces in the empire. I see archers/huntsmen coming in the more rustic provinces such as
Talabecland and Stirland. Especially Stirland, which has been widely noted as one of the poorer provinces. To me a similar thing is going on with the lack of Skarsnik, squigs, and Belegar Ironhammer, which I see as a potential "War for Karak Eight Peaks" pack coming shortly after the release of the Skaven so to include
Queek Headtaker.

Except that the thing says "empire unit roster" not "reikland unit roster" or "partial empire roster".

[Beregond]

As has been pointed out Shogun 2 was one of the most polished and complete TW games of all and had a homogeneity of units and one race. Hopefully CA have finally learned from this.

yet interestingly this is the TW I played the less. Not that I say it's bad, mind you

I am from those who prefer 10 different looking units performing similar roles over 2 "polished" ones.
Shogun2 does not surpass Med2 imho

[Manu La Canette]

Definitely not buying after reading this. This roster simply lacks flavour and diversity you should expect from the Empire. So many Knights orders, they choose to go for the Reiksguard only... So many Magic Colleges, only 2 in-game. What about regional units? All armies will look the same.
And nothing about an Empire relooking over State troops? Seriously, these looks like garbage at the moment. I was expecting some announcement over this. I'm very disappointed in the overhaul.