The importance of taking Carthage

[paleologos]

Right, there always has to be a large core of your empire that is far from the battlefront or enemy provinces in order to thrive financially. These things just came into much sharper focus when I took Carthage as opposed to Capua in Italy, Massalia in Gaul, or Gadeira in Iberia. The economic benefit of that achievement was stunning and almost immediate.
...

Sure, I am not disputing that this is what happened.
I am simply trying to investigate how and why.
Were Capua, Massalia and Gadeira equally developed as Carthage when you took them?
Has Carthage been given indestructible unique buildings that give it a particular boost in trade?

[BailianSteel]

Precisely. At this point (past turn 360) I also think it's about the scale and scope of my empire with a massive internal economy that can sustain itself even as several smaller bordering factions are foolishly trying to bully me, the bigger one. It's not just Greece, Italy, and the Maghreb combined, it's also the western half of Anatolia, the Nile Delta, Syria, Crimea, Thrace, Illyria, the Mediterranean island provinces, southern Gaul and western Iberia/Hispania being taxed by one authority and able to share trading routes without the disturbance of warfare.

The perpetual, multi-front warfare may have something to do with our different results. I prefer to take things one front or province at a time unless I have good RP reasons to do otherwise.

I haven't read that book in particular, no, but I do have plenty of books about ancient China, by Patricia Ebrey for instance, as well as several tomes by Joseph Needham. Thanks for sharing the reference. In either case Chang'an and Luoyang were roughly on par with Athens and the city of Rome during their respective heydays.

You're welcome. Not only did Chang'an 26 BCE blow my mind, I also found it fun to read. Sometimes academic gold...does not shine as sweetly.

If you're looking for more Zhou to Han Era big cities, the Han Dynasty had the Five Capitals, two of which date back to the Zhou period. One Warring States orator paid special attention to Qi's capital, Linzi. Zuo Zhuan contains a passage that says cities within a lord's domain should not approach a lord's capital in size, so looking for the capitals of the numerous states would be a good bet.

I'd just add that the trade system in Medieval 2 is way, way more sophisticated and rational than the one in Rome 2 or Attila. The first move you do in R2TW-DeI is to send your admiral into the voyage around the world to get contacts with any faction possible and to get trade. This is so unrealistic that I can't bear it. Same with the resources - you can procure it from any part in the world if you've got trade rights...

The Medieval 2 system is as realistic as possible, in comparison.

Advances in tech don't always equal advances in gameplay. I had my fun with the post Medieval 2 games, but Medieval 2's system is still the most expansive and interesting to me. Especially in regards to the character system.

[Rad]

There was something special for people like you in Qart-Hadasht, involving crucifixion...

You get the beams, I'll get the hammer and nails!

[Lusitanio]

You get the beams, I'll get the hammer and nails!

Oh right then, got any plans for friday?

[Roma_Victrix]

Brother Hasdrubal...get the cross.

Were Capua, Massalia and Gadeira equally developed as Carthage when you took them?
Has Carthage been given indestructible unique buildings that give it a particular boost in trade?

Carthage has the unique seaport thing, so I'm guess that's part of it. In either case Capua was a large city developed by the Romans, Gadeira a large city developed by the Carthaginians, but Massalia was only a city that I had to develop over the decades into a large city, now approaching the population of a huge city for the final upgrade. It was largely developed when I took Carthage.

[tentaku]

Advances in tech don't always equal advances in gameplay. I had my fun with the post Medieval 2 games, but Medieval 2's system is still the most expansive and interesting to me. Especially in regards to the character system.

Can't agree more. I haven't seen recruitment pool come back since Medieval 2, except I heard it exists in Britannia.... How can they remove recruitment pool completely and never reconsider it??? Has the new generation of strategy players grown so casual that they don't welcome this kind of realistic feature??

[Rad]

Oh right then, got any plans for friday?

I am going out for a couple of beers. Does Sunday morning work for you?

[BailianSteel]

Can't agree more. I haven't seen recruitment pool come back since Medieval 2, except I heard it exists in Britannia.... How can they remove recruitment pool completely and never reconsider it??? Has the new generation of strategy players grown so casual that they don't welcome this kind of realistic feature??

Who knows? I do think the Total War franchise has always been more about simulating movie battles than being historical. No doubt the creative vision and team has changed over the years too. I'd say the team that made Medieval 2 just wanted a more realistic game at the time.

[RodriguesSting]

And, furthermore, as I cannot overstate this, CARTHAGO DELENDA, and, in conclusion, EST.