Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Bande Nere]

Patrick Lancaster? Who has been exposed to be lying for the Russians? To the random Joe his videos appear to be exposing the ugly truth but people with some knowledge of what he's showing often expose him to be lying as what's seen in the videos do not always go inline with what he's claiming. You're gonna have to do better than him.

Good luck with that.

[bitterhowl]

What could be better than good 100% Western propaganda?
Incoming! It's B.B.C. here!

No one does it better ©

[Mithradates]

Except I discussed counter examples. Dresden, Grozny. Your attempt to ridicule the statement is as such unfounded.
Did I say, there is no civilian casualties? Did I say there is no collateral? No and no. I said I haven't seen any significant evidence of Russia intentionally targeting civilians. The key word here is intentionally. Does your video provide evidence that this civilian car you mention was intentionally targeted? Doubtful.

Go to YouTube and search for:
"Raw War Footage: Drone video showing Russian soldiers shooting Ukrainian civilians west of Kyiv"
"Video Shows Elderly Couple Being Killed By Russian Armored Column"
"'Dad, Please Don't Die!': Harrowing Video Captures Deadly Russian Attack On Ukrainian Father And Son"
etc...

They are doing this to terrorise the civilians and make them flee, the refugees overburden the hospitals and make the Ukrainian government spend resources on them, UN says 10 million have fled their homes already.

[Janbāru]

@ Alastor, are you trying to say that these are surgical strikes?
Russian soldiers must need glasses because even the US didn't reach that level of destruction in Iraq.

@ bitterhowl, actually you're wrong. Putin does.

[bitterhowl]

Go to YouTube and search for:
"Raw War Footage: Drone video showing Russian soldiers shooting Ukrainian civilians west of Kyiv"
"Video Shows Elderly Couple Being Killed By Russian Armored Column"
"'Dad, Please Don't Die!': Harrowing Video Captures Deadly Russian Attack On Ukrainian Father And Son"
etc...

They are doing this to terrorise the civilians and make them flee, the refugees overburden the hospitals and make the Ukrainian government spend resources on them, UN says 10 million have fled their homes already.

Raw video from a drone? Why not a satellite? You've been there, so you recognise the place and it's a place "west to Kyiv"? And it's Russian soldiers because they're "green little people"?

I know some place west to Kyiv with those footage - it's Poland, you know, with a fake film studios.

Yes, definitely even I can do better.

@ bitterhowl, actually you're wrong. Putin does.

thank you, I see a substantial level of discussion. "It can't be justified because it can't be justified". Okay then. I have my opinion and since there's democracy in your country ofc - consider please.

And watch that film from BBC please. It's all lies there, you have to remember.

[Bande Nere]

A number of examples of Russia "intentionally" targeting civilians? No you haven't given me that.

I did not say Russia has not committed any war crimes. Like you said that's a very wide range of actions. So wide, that war crimes are effectively being committed every time there is a war. I said, I have not seen significant evidence that point towards Russian intentionally targeting civilians. I have not been shown otherwise. That you are so quick to call me not neutral, to accuse me basically of bias, shows instead your own lack of neutrality. And who's we anyway?

I am hanging on the mispronunciation of a surname because I was asked to "educate myself" on a topic that everyone with even a rudimentary education would be well aware of. Which came without a single shred of merit no less, since I had spoken of the importance of the EU building up is defenses, thus acquiring more security. It was an insult and I'm responding appropriately. Grozny 2.0, on the other hand, was an exaggeration and my objection is relevant to my argument. You say it doesn't prove my point, but you brought it up and it was meant to prove yours. I agree, it didn't.

You are free to move on, if you wish. I'm not forcing you to respond. But an acknowledgment that you are correct, no, I will not give you that. You aren't.

This is the comment on which you are still hanging on. You might notice the "it's becoming" part just before the word that has made you upset. So who is making incorrect assesments and exagerations?

But are they being considerate? Not really. Mariupol is becoming Grozny 2.0, other villages have received similar treatments, and that with all those shells not exploding. So yes, war crimes are being committed, just not across the entirety of Ukraine.

We have shown you otherwise.

You simply chose not to watch or read them.

I am absolutely biased against Putin, you are right. And I know that too. That's why I do my best to prove my statements with data instead of A SINGLE OPINION PIECE.

[Mithradates]

Raw video from a drone? Why not a satellite? You've been there, so you recognise the place and it's a place "west to Kyiv"? And it's Russian soldiers because they're "green little people"?

I know some place west to Kyiv with those footage - it's Poland, you know, with a fake film studios.

Yes, definitely even I can do better.

Nope, they are Russian soldiers because they have the markings on their tank, and they have white armbands. Watch the video.

[Janbāru]

@ bitterhowl, do you realize that the video you posted above is from 2014!!!

[Bande Nere]

@ bitterhowl, do you realize that the video you posted above is from 2014!!!

Is that even surprising at this point?

[bitterhowl]

@ bitterhowl, do you realize that the video you posted above is from 2014!!!

Yup. And I'd like to you for realize that too.

It's there since 2014 till president present (goddamns t9) days. No justification for Russia ofc.

"No Nazis in Ukraine!11" - since 2014 at least
"No NATO in Ukraine!1!" - since 2015 at least
"No Donbass shelling 1!!" - since 2014 definitely

Putin impulsive and greedy attack!!1

Oh, and I forgot some laboratories and Hunter Biden's deals also there.

Nope, they are Russian soldiers because they have the markings on their tank, and they have white armbands. Watch the video.

Brilliant! Be careful with white armband, because if you will make one at home someone can think you are Russian soldier, you know.

And it's west of Kyiv because - ... ?

[Janbāru]

@ bitterhowl, even if I doubt you will, you should read this: War in Ukraine: Part 4 - Are There Neo-Nazis in Ukraine? - Vitaliy Katsenelson Contrarian Edge

In 2019 Ukraine held democratic elections. 73% of the country voted to elect a Jewish president in a country that also had a Jewish prime minister. Ukrainians must be a unique breed of neo-Nazis, as Ukraine is the only country in the world whose head of government and head of state are Jewish (outside of Israel). By the way, in the same election, the far right party got only 2.3% of the vote. So no, Ukraine doesn’t have a neo-Nazi problem. Just like any Western country, Ukraine is affected by the neo-Nazi cancer, but it represents only a tiny portion of the society.

Still want to discuss about denazification of Ukraine?

[bitterhowl]

@ bitterhowl, even if I doubt you will, you should read this: War in Ukraine: Part 4 - Are There Neo-Nazis in Ukraine? - Vitaliy Katsenelson Contrarian Edge



Still want to discuss about denazification of Ukraine?

How about a state military unit with Nazis symbols on official sign? How many you have in your country?

How about a chief of this unit which didn't give a hand to president while being awarded a medal? It's a Marvel comic book logic - "Their president is Jew, so Azov isn't Nazi unit. And Aidar. And Dnepr. And Donbass". Very, very substantial.

[Janbāru]

You have clearly not read that article. Please do and then we can discuss seriously.

Beside, what about neonazi groups going to Russia for military training? Why are German neo-Nazis training in Russia? | In Depth | DW | 06.06.2020

According to Focus magazine, some of the men are members of the Young Nationalists, the youth wing of the NPD, Germany's oldest right-wing extremist party. As the youth wing only counts 280 members, it remains politically insignificant, although its participants are rather active when it comes to public action. The group has run would-be environmental protection campaigns, for example, in an attempt to win over young supporters.
Other participants in the paramilitary training in Russia are reportedly members of The Third Way, one of the most radical political parties in Germany. According to the Germany's domestic intelligence agency, the BfV, the party promotes a nationalist and racist ideology influenced by Nazism, and it rejects democracy. The Third Way was founded by members of a right-wing extremist association from southern Germany just as it was about to be banned by lawmakers — in Germany, the hurdles for banning a political party are much higher than those for banning a club or association.

2020, that's not that long ago
Do you want me to carry on? I still have more examples.

[Mithradates]

Brilliant! Be careful with white armband, because if you will make one at home someone can think you are Russian soldier, you know.

And it's west of Kyiv because - ... ?

The white armband would be easy but I cant get a vintage T-72 so no roleplay for me

And it's west of Kyiv, because it is the E40 expressway, a few kilometers west of Kyiv.

Watch the video, its time to get red pilled

EDIT: just for you, the exact location: Sadova Vulytsya, 2, Mriia, Kyivs'ka oblast, 08112.

[bitterhowl]

The white armband would be easy but I cant get a vintage T-72 so no roleplay for me

And it's west of Kyiv, because it is the E40 expressway, a few kilometers west of Kyiv.

Watch the video, its time to get red pilled

EDIT: just for you, the exact location: Sadova Vulytsya, 2, Mriia, Kyivs'ka oblast, 08112.

Uh oh, looks like Poroshenko in danger!11

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And no white bands in Ukraine since 02.24 too ofc.

[bitterhowl]

You have clearly not read that article. Please do and then we can discuss seriously.

Beside, what about neonazi groups going to Russia for military training? Why are German neo-Nazis training in Russia? | In Depth | DW | 06.06.2020


2020, that's not that long ago
Do you want me to carry on? I still have more examples.

All Nazi organisations are banned in Russia, have you been known? DW is another good source ofc. Just like BBC but in Deutsch.

[Alastor]

@ Alastor, are you trying to say that these are surgical strikes?
Russian soldiers must need glasses because even the US didn't reach that level of destruction in Iraq.

These being what? Street fighting? No. Those are ugly and there will be significant collateral. Long range strikes and bombings? Yes, I haven't seen as I said any significant evidence that Russia is intentionally targeting civilian targets.

This is the comment on which you are still hanging on. You might notice the "it's becoming" part just before the word that has made you upset. So who is making incorrect assesments and exagerations?

You are.

We have shown you otherwise.

You simply chose not to watch or read them.

I am absolutely biased against Putin, you are right. And I know that too. That's why I do my best to prove my statements with data instead of A SINGLE OPINION PIECE.

Again who's we? Or is that the royal we? Data I have provided, we spoke of numbers, you haven't provided anything more significant and I have seen more "opinion pieces" to that effect. Either way, I'm keeping the admission that you are biased from this. Good to know.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

The presence of nazis in Ukraine does not justify invading Ukraine, just like how the presence of nazis in Russia does not justify invading Russia.
Obligatory:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[bitterhowl]

Some news about isolated Russia

[PointOfViewGun]

They are examples of what happens when you intentionally target civilians. If my point is not making any sense, you can either try approaching it in good faith for a change, or just leave it for those that are willing to do that.

I see no good faith in your arguments. Don't expect good faith in return. Neither Dresden nor Grozny dictate what is and isn't intentional targeting of civilians. There is absolutely no logic to hiding behind two such examples. Your point is as idiotic as it gets in defense of Russians and all it deserves is to be pounded to dust without an inch of respect.

All Nazi organisations are banned in Russia, have you been known? DW is another good source ofc. Just like BBC but in Deutsch.

The Wagner Group is banned in Russia?